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Post by Imhotep on Mar 14, 2009 22:36:50 GMT -5
For obvious reasons PM/RDD combo should be penalized like in many servers.
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Post by Tempus on Mar 15, 2009 6:40:15 GMT -5
what reasons are those?
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Post by Imhotep on Mar 15, 2009 10:50:37 GMT -5
They make all other meele units useless. |
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Post by bhale187 on Mar 15, 2009 11:03:42 GMT -5
They make all other meele units useless. So do arcane casters, my sorc PM can cast just 3 shield spells and drop most anything melee based by letting it beat itself to death on my shields. We've already nerfed the shields spells and bigby spells, but the arcane vs melee balance problem remains. I don't think nerfing those classes fixes the problem, perhaps boosting other weaker prestige classes would lessen the balance gap. It just doesn't seem right to me to nerf a class because it's useful, and another prestige class is not as useful. |
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Post by Imhotep on Mar 15, 2009 15:16:21 GMT -5
They make all other meele units useless. So do arcane casters, my sorc PM can cast just 3 shield spells and drop most anything melee based by letting it beat itself to death on my shields. We've already nerfed the shields spells and bigby spells, but the arcane vs melee balance problem remains. They will use scrolls to dispell and heal at will. At best, it will result in a stalemate. And I said "other meele units". |
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Post by bhale187 on Mar 15, 2009 15:39:29 GMT -5
So do arcane casters, my sorc PM can cast just 3 shield spells and drop most anything melee based by letting it beat itself to death on my shields. We've already nerfed the shields spells and bigby spells, but the arcane vs melee balance problem remains. They will use scrolls to dispell and heal at will. At best, it will result in a stalemate. And I said "other meele units". Well for starters PM and RDD are both arcane caster prestige classes, and neither is designed for melee. RDD is simply a PC that is connecting with draconic heritage and gains physical and mental prowess in the process, and PM is a necromancer who takes the craft to the extreme of becoming near undead. Neither one gains any weapon or armor training, neither is remotely close to melee character AB. As for a stalemate between arcane and melee, I assume you are refering to PvP since no mobs use scrolls and only bosses use heals. And if that is the case, you must be joking to state that a melee vs arcane PvP is going to be a stalemate, that really is laughable. Perhaps if the mage used ONLY those 3 spells the melee would have a chance (that is if the melee is a munchkin who took some mixed levels to get UMD for scroll use), but no one is going to use only 3 basic buffing spells in a PvP combat. |
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Post by Imhotep on Mar 15, 2009 15:59:41 GMT -5
They will use scrolls to dispell and heal at will. At best, it will result in a stalemate. And I said "other meele units". Well for starters PM and RDD are both arcane caster prestige classes, and neither is designed for melee. RDD is simply a PC that is connecting with draconic heritage and gains physical and mental prowess in the process, and PM is a necromancer who takes the craft to the extreme of becoming near undead. Neither one gains any weapon or armor training, neither is remotely close to melee character AB. As for a stalemate between arcane and melee, I assume you are refering to PvP since no mobs use scrolls and only bosses use heals. And if that is the case, you must be joking to state that a melee vs arcane PvP is going to be a stalemate, that really is laughable. Of course, I refer to pvp! And yes, now that there's no way to stop a player to heal (bigbies are nerf), any good meele unit just have to dispell (Mordenkainen's Disjunction scroll), heal at will and wait for the caster to run out of spells. Yes, PM and RDD are arcane caster prestige classes, but no one use the combo PM/RDD to prevail as a caster. Thinking the combo PM/RDD is not overpowered vs other meele units is also really laughable. |
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Post by bhale187 on Mar 15, 2009 16:17:39 GMT -5
Of course, I refer to pvp! And yes, now that there's no way to stop a player to heal (bigbies are nerf), any good meele unit just have to dispell (Mordenkainen's Disjunction scroll), heal at will and wait for the caster to run out of spells. If you've watched any PVP combats (involving someone who knows how to play a caster) since the change to bigby you should know the outcome is still always the same, melee dies. So Yea, let me know how that strategy works out for you as a melee, or even a bard/pm/rdd for that matter. BTW, there are still several spells that absolutely deny the use of heals by a melee, or any other action for that matter. Yes, PM and RDD are arcane caster prestige classes, but no one use the combo PM/RDD to prevail as a caster. Thinking the combo PM/RDD is not overpowered vs other meele units is also really laughable. No one said the PM RDD is not over powered, just that they are not the melee classes you keep comparing them too. Regardless though,even if we completely removed the PM, RDD, and all arcane casters people would start complaining that the someone built a cleric rogue SD that is too powerful, or a bard WM DD, and so on. Some people just know how to use the system to build extremely powerful PCs, and some don't. |
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Post by Tony654 on Mar 15, 2009 23:17:32 GMT -5
Actually, like on many other servers, sorcerers should be penalized. For obvious reasons.
Like Ben said, maybe other classes should be "helped" a little. For example, try buffing BGs. PM's summons should be buffed as well.
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Post by Tino the magnificent on Mar 16, 2009 0:20:32 GMT -5
yup, and SD should be unseeable if they get there Hide/MS up enough.....im not saying any low number that anyone can achieve.....i'm talking uber hide/ms focusing here.....and mabey at least 20 lvls in SD to facilitate that (in all honesty, i'm not even sure if it could be scripted)..... other class that needs buffed a bit is PDK....i've looked em over a bit, not to much mind ya....and i would like to see some buffing there as no one uses em.....would be nice to see some floating around... that's my two cents, will add more as my mind starts working again  mind working again  okay, another i just thought of is Harper Scout, what an incredible waste of 5 lvls....not even sure on how this one could be boosted to make it work effectivly...open to sugestions on this one Tino |
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Post by Tempus on Mar 16, 2009 11:35:38 GMT -5
I've used the HS with Bard and in some cases, Rogue, for the extra feats, esspecially when I can select feats useable by either of these classes.
Also, I do find the Casts Grace (stackable) and +2 saves useful (though not as much). Now- a thought about boosting it? What about instead of the potions of cats grace or eagle splendor carp- we allow them to craft a new potion?
- MILK (combo of cats grace, bull strength and endurance) It does the the body good!
;D
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Post by Tony654 on Mar 16, 2009 14:57:29 GMT -5
What about instead of the potions of cats grace or eagle splendor carp- we allow them to craft a new potion? - MILK (combo of cats grace, bull strength and endurance) It does the the body good! ;D Yes, yes, how about a loss of charisma for the ensuing milk mustache? |
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Post by bhale187 on Mar 16, 2009 16:29:34 GMT -5
I've used the HS with Bard and in some cases, Rogue, for the extra feats, esspecially when I can select feats useable by either of these classes. Also, I do find the Casts Grace (stackable) and +2 saves useful (though not as much). Now- a thought about boosting it? What about instead of the potions of cats grace or eagle splendor carp- we allow them to craft a new potion? - MILK (combo of cats grace, bull strength and endurance) It does the the body good! ;D Better yet, how about making the potion a custom that gives say +6 to STR, DEX, CON. And boost the saves to +5 or 6 and extend the duration to HS level X 5 hours as well. |
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Post by bhale187 on Mar 16, 2009 16:40:09 GMT -5
A blackguard boost sugestion
change the CHA boost to saves on BG to a CON boost to saves
boost the BG summons starting at lvl 15. instead of giving a little boost to the Vrock, just replace it with a Vampire, then at level 20 an Alhoon and at 25 a Doomknight commander
also change smite good to add CON and CHA to the bonus damage +2 per level
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Post by bhale187 on Mar 16, 2009 16:49:05 GMT -5
assasin boost idea
change death attack to a save vs fortitude or become dazed, paralyzed should be more powerful than dazed, but on RD the freedom enchantment is so easy to get that the death attack is basically useless
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