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Post by renegade on Oct 30, 2008 15:37:19 GMT -5
Well yes it's true that generally speaking even the novice Sorc can wreck havoc on melee chars - so whats the answer? Carry on making alterations to spells? I don't think so.
I suggest the following 2 things:
1) If it is possible (I don't know if it is) have a script that un-equips Epic Sorcs of their gear if they are multiclassed and do not allow a multiclassed Epic Sorc to equip items. This would encourage pure build Sorcs who would then benefit from gear but lose much of their cookiecutter uberness in PvP and need to use up all those feats on armour etc. Or if you prefer to go PM or pally/monk you can do so with the penalty of losing the opportunity to use gear and so unable to further enhance your already considerable penis size
Or (and)
2) Make Mord wands readily available in shops at a price deemed worthy by the DM team that any class can use. Combined with number point 1 I think that goes a long way to levelling the playing field in PvP without having to change every spell in the book and does not I believe really pose any great benefit to PvM as I can't really think of any mobs that are really buff reliant in Rd?
Just an idea instead of having to alter evey other spell that players realise actually works very well in PvP once their favourite gets the liposuction treatment.
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Post by bhale187 on Oct 30, 2008 16:27:42 GMT -5
I like to see you thinking outside the box to fix the problem, but I see problems with your 2 suggestions
1) a 40 sorc is going to kick the snot out of every melee character just as fast as any munchkin'd sorcerer
2) mords will also strip the bard or rogue UMD'er of his buffs, and strip the bosses of their buffs
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Post by bhale187 on Oct 30, 2008 16:35:07 GMT -5
BTW, I am on a campaign to get every spell returned to standard nwn scripts with the exception of GS, the shields, time stop and bigbys.
If bigby had a better way to resist and/or was MUCH shorter and you nerfed the above named spells I think we'd be on much closer to level playing field between mages and melees.
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Post by Dethklok on Oct 30, 2008 23:26:32 GMT -5
Not sure if i understood your first suggestion, do you mean that sorcerers who multiclass would not be allowed to use items normally restricted to sorcerers (armor, martial weapons, shields, etc.), or not use any items at all? If either of those are the case, then penalizing only one class for multiclassing would make as much sense as limiting UMD. Again, Im not exactly sure what you were going for there.  Sorcerers are powerful on RD for two reasons. A few uber spells and totally unbalanced gear. The Dm team (as it seems) has neglected to correct either of these, at least to an effective point. From what I've seen, many of the recent changes have been in the opposite direction they should be going. In other words, the wrong gear is being nerfed, making casters (specifically sorcerers) more and more powerful. Now Im not saying our DM's are doing a bad job, just that you may be making changes in the wrong places. I also understand that its not easy being the one in charge, and that not everyone's opinion is the same as mine. But when an entire class is built around one spell...you have to realize there is something wrong with it. |
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Post by renegade on Nov 1, 2008 4:58:52 GMT -5
I hadn't really given any thought to the Bards :/
Ok how about auto spell failure for x rounds after casting either GTC or BFH due to the enormous amount of mental and physical energy casting such uber spells must use.
This would possibly mean the spells are used more as a get out of trouble quick tactic as opposed to a lets put the whole of the other clan on their arse's and blast the snot out of them tactic
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Post by Dethklok on Nov 1, 2008 12:12:11 GMT -5
Adding spell failure wouldnt be effective in a 1 on 1 fight, because it wouldnt last nearly as long as BFH or GTC would. And would it still apply if the player resists the spell? The best way to make it fair is to just change those two spells.
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Post by Dethklok on Nov 5, 2008 16:50:55 GMT -5
Im having trouble coming up with a valid reason to keep bigbys forceful hand the way it is...do you mind explaining yours Hecate?
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Post by villvk on Nov 6, 2008 4:24:36 GMT -5
Old poor sorcerers!
Why, oh why do you hate them so much! What about wizards!
I don`t know why are you lot feeling endangered by arcane casters.
I think It is only fair on RD to give their spells a boost so they can do some damage to the creatures lurking around. Only good point is that melee chars have quite harder time leveling up.
So instead nerfing the arcane spells and casters would you consider on some area where you could level a melee build and get quite kicked if you are any sort of caster. As for PVP if you get caster unaware he is done trough and trough and no worry you will get hurt and likewise if he gets you on open field you are toasted.
Mybe to balance fighters poor defense VS spells you could improve items which gives spell resistance (24 is way to low).
And for building around single spell don't tell me fighters don't build around single weapon.
PS: I don`t have a single sorcerer build but I still like them:D
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Post by bhale187 on Nov 6, 2008 9:55:57 GMT -5
Old poor sorcerers! Why, oh why do you hate them so much! What about wizards! I don`t know why are you lot feeling endangered by arcane casters. I think It is only fair on RD to give their spells a boost so they can do some damage to the creatures lurking around. Only good point is that melee chars have quite harder time leveling up. So instead nerfing the arcane spells and casters would you consider on some area where you could level a melee build and get quite kicked if you are any sort of caster. As for PVP if you get caster unaware he is done trough and trough and no worry you will get hurt and likewise if he gets you on open field you are toasted. Mybe to balance fighters poor defense VS spells you could improve items which gives spell resistance (24 is way to low). And for building around single spell don't tell me fighters don't build around single weapon. PS: I don`t have a single sorcerer build but I still like them:D It's not about leveling up, it's about casters' dominance in PvP. |
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Post by villvk on Nov 6, 2008 10:07:50 GMT -5
Well this things are connected and I sad that if you nerf casters for pvp you nerf them for other things too don't you think?
And don't rush a caster straight on!
My comment still holds for SR.
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Post by bhale187 on Nov 6, 2008 10:17:05 GMT -5
Well this things are connected and I sad that if you nerf casters for pvp you nerf them for other things too don't you think? And don't rush a caster straight on! My comment still holds for SR. The highest SR available on the toolest is either 24 or 32, I have forgotten off hand. Either way the highest SR available through the toolset is way to low to defend against an epic level caster. My monk has 65 SR and spells still occasionally get through it. To have a 50/50 chance of sr against a level 40 caster you need at least 50 SR, and thats if the caster does not have any spell penetration feats. in short SR on items is not an option |
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Post by Tino the magnificent on Nov 6, 2008 12:14:56 GMT -5
okay, so........pvp against a caster is just like any other pvp.....think thru ur oponent, find a way to kill him.....there are ways folks.......just think about it....
a caster can be taken easily due to there inherent weakness, kd the crap out of em, they usualy don't have that good of ac, even if they take pm as well as lots of con........
a good pm can own the casters especialy if he is using any buffing scrolls, such as greater spell mantle, sure, they will mords the crap out of you but it's okay, carrry more then one GSM, lmao........
don't put down the caster just because they have it eisier lvling, a proper mage killer build can be most efective in pvp as well as pvm......stop w/ all the belly aching just because you havn't found a way to get around the shields or getting owned by the mage classes....
i think the only reason mages seem so powerful right now is because the gear for the other classes have been nerfed so bad, i say instead of nerfing the mages just adjust the weaps, armor, rings, etc. for other classes and make them so the mages can't use em......
just my two cents
Tino
oh, in case ur wondering, i hate mages, lol......i'm just being the devils advocate on this one
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Post by Dethklok on Nov 6, 2008 12:49:32 GMT -5
First off, this has nothing to do with the difficulty of leveling casters vs melee builds...the spells in question would have no impact on that. Also no weapon is as powerful as those spells are...unless it can auto-kd on hit for about 40 rounds. In most cases you would be correct Tino, its usually not hard to kill sorcs and wizards...but that is because they are new at it. An experienced Sorc can kill you 95 percent of the time, no question. Just wait until Eclipse starts playing again and you'll see what i mean...they've gotten pretty good at playing the most overpowered class in the game. Im having trouble coming up with a valid reason to keep bigbys forceful hand the way it is...do you mind explaining yours Hecate? Still waiting on an answer Hecate. |
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Post by ciamhan on Nov 7, 2008 10:24:22 GMT -5
Though this thread inspired this thought, this may not be the right thread for this suggestion. As a chronic bard, I don't like that scrolls have an innate level far too low to be useful for higher level characters in more dangerous circumstances. Is there a way to change the scribe scroll feat so that scrolls are made at the caster's level than the innate level? We UMDers would then finally gain some balance. High level casters could make scrolls for their clans .To keep this from letting anyone with one level of rogue or bard use a level 40 IGMS scroll, the UMD could be half the caster's level or twice the spell level, therefore requiring at least 10 bard or rogue levels and possibly as much as 15 to use the better stuff.
C
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Post by Pants on Nov 7, 2008 17:48:18 GMT -5
First off, this has nothing to do with the difficulty of leveling casters vs melee builds...the spells in question would have no impact on that. Also no weapon is as powerful as those spells are...unless it can auto-kd on hit for about 40 rounds. In most cases you would be correct Tino, its usually not hard to kill sorcs and wizards...but that is because they are new at it. An experienced Sorc can kill you 95 percent of the time, no question. Just wait until Eclipse starts playing again and you'll see what i mean...they've gotten pretty good at playing the most overpowered class in the game. Im having trouble coming up with a valid reason to keep bigbys forceful hand the way it is...do you mind explaining yours Hecate? Still waiting on an answer Hecate. Your just jealous we thought of overpowered builds before you did XD |
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