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Post by Dethklok on Mar 19, 2009 23:03:15 GMT -5
Last i checked sorcerers cant be immune to divine or positive (without gear). That sounded an awful lot like it supports what i said. They put on gear, buff with spells, and become immune to any damage another player can hit them with. |
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Post by Nather on Mar 20, 2009 0:04:22 GMT -5
Last i checked sorcerers cant be immune to divine or positive (without gear). That sounded an awful lot like it supports what i said. They put on gear, buff with spells, and become immune to any damage another player can hit them with. solution: make all gear restricted from sorc builds. |
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Post by villvk on Mar 20, 2009 4:58:09 GMT -5
LOL they lock you out form RDD PM topic and here are you all arguing forward:D I think there should be some challenge online as it is at the end of clan wars  this could be Dethklok vs Nather mage - mage melee- melee and both mixing matches:D what do you say it could test your theories. At the end both can go against a boss (I don't know which one is appropriate to kick your buts  ) |
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Post by Dethklok on Mar 20, 2009 10:27:29 GMT -5
Nather has very little skill at nwn, but is able to imitate it by playing a sorcerer, like many others. I've only ever seen him get a kill by sneaking up on someone, using BFH or GTC, then IGMSing them while they are helpless. Bravo. That requires absolutely no skill or knowledge of the game. That said, im not surprised that he (and several others) would be so afraid to have the sorcerer class become even remotely equal the other classes.
As ridiculous as it is for mages to be as overpowered as they are on a "PvP based" server, its is even MORE ridiculous how few people seem to care. Not a single credible person has made the argument that mages are not vastly overpowered. I even spelled out exactly how badass they can become. Being immune to...everything, while sacrificing absolutely none of their ability to disable their opponents and cause massive damage very quickly.
I really hope that something is done to limit mages' power. Soon. Not allowing them to take PM, would at least make them semi-vulnerable to damage. And/or making the spell IGMS not affected by the metamagic feats empower and maximize. The spell is badass enough as it is. There's really no need for them.
At the very least, come up with a rational argument that actualy makes some sense for once.
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Post by Tino the magnificent on Mar 20, 2009 12:04:46 GMT -5
Dudes.... Stop attacking each other on forums.....we already had the RDD/PM locked because of the personal attacks...
discuss the topic in a rational manner w/ out putting down any other player......this crap has got to stop.......
I know ones personal view can lead to an emotional response but put it aside and formulate an apropriate response that is non-offensive to others....for real, are u just looking to get our entire forum locked because that's were it's headed imo...
plz, calm down...
Tino
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Post by Tony654 on Mar 20, 2009 12:13:11 GMT -5
Yup, break it up already.
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Post by Tyr on Mar 20, 2009 12:34:22 GMT -5
The DMs have been discussing the balance issues, there is more being looked into than just the uber classes. It will take time though.
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Post by littletall on Mar 20, 2009 14:21:13 GMT -5
imho, making sorcs not being able to take PM, while PM stays available to wizards and bards, will sooner or later lead to people making equally strong builds with those 2 classes, and subsequently to complaints that wiz/PM and bard/PM combo is too strong. and while it is true that some of us have less skill in pvp than others, this is not the reason I am against nerfing mages. they have plenty other uses, as I already pointed out, and while they are powerful, they are not overpowered for my uses (means outside pvp). So maybe changing some spells could be a viable solution. It would be nice if for example GTC, BFH, IGMS etc could not be used in pvp, or limited to 1 use per fight, however I dont think its possible to do that (maybe with rules?). once it was suggested that a reflex save would be added to IGMS, which would help, but would also make IGMS pretty much useless against anything that's not a PC, so again, if there would be a way to make these chages only affect pvp.......
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Post by Tyr on Mar 20, 2009 16:31:30 GMT -5
Balance is a very hard thing to gauge. How do you determine fairness over experience? Hecate was listening to everyone in the thread that got locked and performed her own tests. Tempus has also been actively interested in this topic of balance. So no worries balance will have its day in court.
Remember that a comprimise is a mutual disatisfaction.
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Post by Dethklok on Mar 20, 2009 16:57:42 GMT -5
I forgot to mention wizards in my original post, but yes, it would apply to them as well. And while I do agree that Bard is a powerful class, i wouldnt go as far as to call them overpowered. I personally dont think that a reflex save would be good to add to IGMS. A reflex save for half damage would become a reflex for no damage for anyone that has improved evasion (Monk, Rogue, etc). Also, many classes that have Improved Evasion will also have a high reflex, so chances are they would become more or less immune to IGMS. And, like you said, so would many NPC's. That is why i suggested that we make IGMS unable to be used along with the Empower and Maximize feats. So it would still be very handy, just not Godly. And I believe i have already explained how a Sorc/PM is extremely powerful in both PvP and PvM. Besides, you shouldn't expect to be able to go anywhere you want by yourself. Many areas are designed so that you need a group of players with many different talents to survive. Not simply charge in with a caster and kill everything by yourself.  |
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Post by Dethklok on Mar 20, 2009 16:58:44 GMT -5
Balance is a very hard thing to gauge. How do you determine fairness over experience? Hecate was listening to everyone in the thread that got locked and performed her own tests. Tempus has also been actively interested in this topic of balance. So no worries balance will have its day in court. Remember that a comprimise is a mutual disatisfaction. Aye. Well spoken Tyr |
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Post by Nather on Mar 20, 2009 21:47:18 GMT -5
Nather has very little skill at nwn, but is able to imitate it by playing a sorcerer, like many others. I've only ever seen him get a kill by sneaking up on someone, using BFH or GTC, then IGMSing them while they are helpless. Bravo. That requires absolutely no skill or knowledge of the game. That said, im not surprised that he (and several others) would be so afraid to have the sorcerer class become even remotely equal the other classes. imagine how good i would be if i wasn't just imitating a good player like you dethklok. If i had all the skill that you do i guess we could just shut down redemption, no point in it anymore. And how noble of you to refuse to play a sorc because they are overpowered. Its certainly cant be because you know if you ever logged a sorc on you would get embarrassed. I will say this: i feel like i am being treated in a disrespectful and demeaning manner that is not only uncalled for, but also unprovoked. I have only posted well thought out responses in a calm and respectful way. Its a shame that the only way you can debate anything is with attacks against other peoples character and frequently resort to name calling because you never have anything constructive to say. unfortunately, we have all been warned that this type of behavior is unacceptable and you have been doing it in almost all of your previous posts. |
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Post by littletall on Mar 20, 2009 22:24:12 GMT -5
the reflex save was just a suggestion that came to mind. I guess any save could be used, if a save is added, but each would make it easier for some classes to resist than others.
so the only class with access to PM would be bard? it may not be overpowered now, but as the only class that can take PM, it will soon become perceived as overpowered. completely removing PM isnt a viable option either....
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Post by Pants on Mar 21, 2009 15:19:59 GMT -5
I agree maybe just limit it to a certain class. Or maybe remove a part of the pm like maybe remove the AC or the hp bonus? (that wouldnt solve the problem but it would sort of help take a bi off the top).
And dethklok what i was saying is that a sorc is very rarely immune to divine and there isnt a whole lot of gear to help combat divine damage. So and easier way to kill a sorc is divine damage.
just my two cents take it, leave it, i dont care
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this could be Dethklok vs Nather 
) 
