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Post by Pants on Nov 8, 2008 22:06:26 GMT -5
Wrong you are about Nwn spells being more overpowered... Heres a exact quote out of the Epic level spell book..... Vengeful Gaze of GodTransmutation Spellcraft DC: 419 Components: V,S Casting Time: 1 action Range: 12,000 ft. Target: one creature, or up to a 10-foot cube of nonliving matter in line of sight Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude half Spell Resistance: Yes To Develop: 3,771,000 gp; 76 days; 143,640 XP. Seed: destroy (DC 29). Factor: increase damage to 305d6 (+570 DC), 1-action casting time (+20 DC). Mitigating factor: 200d6 backlash (-200 DC) The target of this spell is subject to a furry like unto heavenly wrath that deals 305d6 points of damage (or half of that if a fortitude save succeeds). If the target is reduced to -10 hit points or less ( or a construct, object, or undead is reduced to 0 hit points), it is utterly destroyed as if disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. Channeling such terrific forces has its price, and the caster is likewise dealt 200d6 points of damage as your eyes bleed and your skin convulses when the power is released. This spell often kills the caster, but it's often worth it. Note: Table 3-4: Average Damage Dice is useful if you dont't want to roll hundreds of 6-sided dice. I play table top Dnd every wednesday... Plenty more were that came from... More overpowered... I laugh at that... Nice try... That's an epic spell, not a spell, and from 3.0, you know the version of PnP that lasted a whole 2 years before WotC realized it was too flawed to fix so they released 3.5. BTW, did you notice that spell you listed is also going to kill the caster and takes 76 DAYS to cast? Read correctly.... Casting time is 1 action... development is 76 days... and nwn game dnd is broken as is... ive played both... in Nwn can you go as far as you like? i seem to recall in pnp you can go as far as the campaign allows... leading to better character.... oh ... how... is... my... typing... loki?... |
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Post by bhale187 on Nov 8, 2008 22:12:52 GMT -5
QQ more p.s Holy sword adds holy avenger which strips buffs dont tell me its useless It's not useless, but it did get a serious nerf in 1.69 |
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Post by bhale187 on Nov 8, 2008 22:28:05 GMT -5
OK, back to the OP discussion...
I think we still need to examine all the possible angles of leveling the playing field in PvP. The problem at hand is a VERY poorly built and ill equiped arcane caster is more than capable of taking out several melees with the use of 2 or three spells. There is no possible way to build a melee that is capable of taking down multiple casters regardless of what equipment he has.
There have been a ton of changes to the NwN spells on RD, all but 4 of those changes have been boosts to the spells.
In nearly every PvP involving arcane casters you will see Bigby used, and most commonly it is BFH. The spells that come in the following 30+ rounds are nearly irrelevant. I'd like to focus on a reasonable way to lessen bigby without making them entirely useless.
We could go for a dual save on the bigbys that have a save now allowing for more than one class/build type a chance to overcome the spell, or we could come up with a whole new way to resist the spells.
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Post by bhale187 on Nov 8, 2008 22:32:01 GMT -5
And enough with the insults and attacks. If you are not adding something constructive to the discussion please don't post at all.
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Post by Dethklok on Nov 8, 2008 22:45:17 GMT -5
Totally agree with you bhale.
I have mentioned multiple times some modifications that would help level the playing field. There are two aspects to BFH that must be altered: difficulty to resist and duration.
The higher of a character's strength or dexterity could be used to resist BFH (or even both), to give dex builds a chance to resist the spell. The dc could also be lowered a little, although the RD wiki says it has already been lowered to 1d20 +12 from +14.
The duration could be shortened to 1d4 rounds, or maybe 1d4 +1 rounds. As I have stated in various posts, this is still more than enough time to kill your opponent, buff yourself, etc.
Similar adjustments should be considered for GTC.
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Post by Pants on Nov 8, 2008 22:53:18 GMT -5
This is a discussion? thought it was a debate if you cant take a little criticism that you dont like dont make a DEBATE thread... thank you im out
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Post by bhale187 on Nov 8, 2008 23:13:22 GMT -5
This is a discussion? thought it was a debate if you cant take a little criticism that you dont like dont make a DEBATE thread... thank you im out Debate is great, insults and personal attacks are not and will not be tolerated. You probably missed part of that because I did some editing, but there's still plenty of attacks between players that I left in. Telling someone they don't know how to build, how to play, or what they are talking about is not debate or discussion. |
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Post by Tino the magnificent on Nov 9, 2008 0:48:51 GMT -5
so, i think i see were Loki is coming from, and it's not because i'm Kindred too  . i also see were Pants and Tharnos are coming from on the topic of using mages and the fun they are. one flaw in the reasoning of Clipse members......"don't bring any other game, even D&D, into the convo. this is about NWN and RD". we are just trying to make it fair for everyone. the length of BFH does seem to long, i (as a melee builder mostly) feel that even if the duration of the spell was cut in half that the caster would have more then enough time to buff, heal, and lay the smack down. once the effects wore off, if not dead, the melee fighter could heal and still have a fighting chance. I think it would make for better epic battles in PvP. hell, most PvP battles are over too quick imo. about GTC. i honestly like this spell, both when i'm using a caster and when i'm going up against a caster. think of GTC as the stun grenade of the caster  . it is primarily a sonic attack that stuns and/ or flattens oponents. I like that it has such power just because of what it is but i do see a little flaw in it. again, shorten the length of the spell, cut the stun in half as well as the duration of the prone effects. again, this would make for better PvP and epic battles. now, if i have said anything to offend anyone, i am sorry, and blow it out ur ear, lmao, jk. i may be off kilter on some of my ideas but that's because i see things froma melee builders perspective. the thing is, on average melee builders, especialy newbs, don't know how to build truly epic characters. so on average the caster will always win, only because of the lack of no-how on building chars w/ high saves. the duration cut should cut down on the learnig curve of the players. I know that to keep newb players active is not to crush ther builds into the dust w/ casters every time, give em a chance, we all love PvP and that's why we play RD. Level the playing field folks. Thx for listening/ reading, Tino |
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Post by Ael'Thas on Nov 9, 2008 1:14:24 GMT -5
Also, the effects of "Holy Avenger" took a serious nerfing in the update to version 1.69. It now gives you an effective caster level of 10, regardless of your actual pally level. Thus, you cannot dispel anything unless it was cast by someone with 30 or less caster levels (10 + 1d20 = no more than 30). Even then you only have a 25 or 50 percent chance for it to trigger, and it will also not work unless your attack causes damage. This spell is now useless against any mage above 30th level. Holy Avenger is more or less useless as of 1.69 Tarnos, it won't dispel a real mages buffs. Now since most of my thoughts were already talked about I'll just talk about the (imo) major issue about spells - the duration of knockdown/daze/whatever that makes you unable to do anything A duration of lets say 30 rounds is far too long - if you have 30 rounds and are up against a real tank, that has 1200hp (but in reality, most will have lower hp) 1200 / 30 = 40 That's 40 dmg per round - you can easily cast 2 spells per round, even without quickening anything - you only need to do 20 dmg per spell. Even a magic missile deals (if we take average rolls) 15 dmg - if it's maximized it deals 25 dmg. |
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Post by Tony654 on Nov 9, 2008 1:57:14 GMT -5
The duration is the problem, like ya'll said. If these spells had a duration that was similar to KD, then we'd see what was what. Wouldn't it be cool if fighters could have a shield that did damage to those who damaged the fighter with spells? That would force the spell caster to stop casting and heal every so often, like a fighter has to do if he is lucky enough to KD a shielded mage.  |
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Post by Tino the magnificent on Nov 9, 2008 2:41:40 GMT -5
dude, Ael and Tony.......u guys rule, lol
said what i was trying to say in a few short paragraphs.........hehe
duration of kd is the key........
dang, i'm so dumb, lol......i guess i'm not so forthcoming and eloquent in my speach as i thought, lol
btw, drinking, hehehe,
rum rulz,
Tino
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Post by sylvantis on Nov 15, 2008 23:14:41 GMT -5
Successfully changed Bigby's overpowered superness.
Bigby's crushing hand: Now after 2 rounds will require focus, taking other action(fighting/casting) will often break the enchantment.
Bigby's Forceful Hand: Now requires focus after 1 round.
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Post by bhale187 on Nov 16, 2008 15:59:25 GMT -5
Successfully changed Bigby's overpowered superness. Bigby's crushing hand: Now after 2 rounds will require focus, taking other action(fighting/casting) will often break the enchantment. Bigby's Forceful Hand: Now requires focus after 1 round. appearantly that was just the ticket for Hecate, good job Syl |
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Post by Dethklok on Mar 19, 2009 21:55:43 GMT -5
One of the main reasons that Sorcerers are so powerful is because they can become immune to basically all damage a player can hit them with without really having to sacrifice any offense. Many of the uber spells they have dont get much better after level 20 (if at all). Honestly, my Sorc/PM can solo just about any boss with very little effort. How then, if i cant be hurt by bosses,is a player supposed to kill me? Of course, I dont use him in PvP because it is simply ridiculous and unfair.
So what about making sorcerers unable to take any PM levels? This way, they would actually be able to take damage in PvP combat. Although they would still be overpowered, at least others would have a chance against them. Also, it would make boss battles at least remotely challenging. Its hardly even fun going anymore, because its so damn easy.
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Post by Pants on Mar 19, 2009 22:35:56 GMT -5
Last i checked sorcerers cant be immune to divine or positive (without gear).
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. it is primarily a sonic attack that stuns and/ or flattens oponents. I like that it has such power just because of what it is but i do see a little flaw in it. again, shorten the length of the spell, cut the stun in half as well as the duration of the prone effects. again, this would make for better PvP and epic battles.
