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Post by bhale187 on Nov 7, 2008 19:30:59 GMT -5
Though this thread inspired this thought, this may not be the right thread for this suggestion. As a chronic bard, I don't like that scrolls have an innate level far too low to be useful for higher level characters in more dangerous circumstances. Is there a way to change the scribe scroll feat so that scrolls are made at the caster's level than the innate level? We UMDers would then finally gain some balance. High level casters could make scrolls for their clans .To keep this from letting anyone with one level of rogue or bard use a level 40 IGMS scroll, the UMD could be half the caster's level or twice the spell level, therefore requiring at least 10 bard or rogue levels and possibly as much as 15 to use the better stuff. C Sorry C, To the best of my recolection, the scrolls' inate levels are hard coded, meaning there is no way to make a higher level scroll. NwN took the easy way out on those and coded them so the are not produced by the level of the caster. |
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Post by Ael'Thas on Nov 7, 2008 22:07:55 GMT -5
Sorry C, To the best of my recolection, the scrolls' inate levels are hard coded, meaning there is no way to make a higher level scroll. NwN took the easy way out on those and coded them so the are not produced by the level of the caster. Ben is correct, while there is a way to change the caster lvls of scrolls (re-scripting the base coding for every spell to check for caster lvl at the moment of casting and work with that) - it would really strain the server and put a lot of work on someone to go through every script - there really is no easy way to change the hard-coded scroll lvls... |
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Post by Tarnos on Nov 8, 2008 0:28:55 GMT -5
First off, this has nothing to do with the difficulty of leveling casters vs melee builds...the spells in question would have no impact on that. Also no weapon is as powerful as those spells are...unless it can auto-kd on hit for about 40 rounds. In most cases you would be correct Tino, its usually not hard to kill sorcs and wizards...but that is because they are new at it. An experienced Sorc can kill you 95 percent of the time, no question. Just wait until Eclipse starts playing again and you'll see what i mean...they've gotten pretty good at playing the most overpowered class in the game. Im having trouble coming up with a valid reason to keep bigbys forceful hand the way it is...do you mind explaining yours Hecate? Still waiting on an answer Hecate. okay here is my two cents in this... changing the spells of a sorc/wiz wont do you very much good in the fact that yeah its gona mess with PvM, the solution to this ( IMO ) is upgrading the weapons for fighters OR ... I hate to say it... downgrading or preventing a few items from sorcs/wizards ( im still gona stand by leave the system as is... and dont mess with my spells but... thats just my inner mage speaking...)..... also if done right... yes... you can kill a mage... IT IS possible... it requires thinking instead of bullheaded rushing that you do against another melee fighter. also Tino... mages hate you too... :3 jk man ( and thanks for the compliment Loki we have gotten pretty good havent we  ) |
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Post by Dethklok on Nov 8, 2008 1:53:31 GMT -5
I never said it wasnt possible to kill a mage Tarnos, I said it was extremely difficult, which is true. Of course, the mage in question would have to know what he is doing and have a decent build. For instance, I can use 1 scroll per round, while you can cast 2 or 3 spells, so you can dispel my buffs 2 or 3 times faster than i can cast them, making it hardly worthwhile. Many lower leveled spells have uses beyond the obvious and are very handy in pvp, Etc. I dont expect you to know what im talking about Tarnos, but dont think that the "thoughtless bullheaded rushing" that i do is without...thought.
Upgrading weapons would have no effect upon spells like BFH and GTC. Having a better weapon wouldnt make either of them any easier to resist or shorten the duration at all. This is not solution to the problem, its a distraction at best.
Once again i would like to state that no, the spells we're talking about WOULD NOT have a significant impact in PvM or leveling. Bigbys and GTC are rarely (if ever) used to level. Spells that would affect PvM and leveling would be Wail, Wall of Fire, Sunburst, EBT, Dominate Monster, damage shields, etc. Nobody is talking about altering those, so you'll still be able to go from 1st to 40th in 4 days.
Also, I do agree that some of the uber mage gear should be nerfed (or at least made harder to get). In my opinion, the Mithral Hauberk is more useful to Sorcerers than the "new and improved" Dread Plate is for melee builds. The hauberk is a once per reset item in the second area of Arkansas (well within a level 25's reach), while the Dread Plate is one of the two items the boss of the FoD drops...thats almost laughable.
And yes, congratulations Tarnos, Imhotep, and Nather, you can cast BFH and igms people to death...well done!
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Post by Tarnos on Nov 8, 2008 14:59:31 GMT -5
GTC doesnt work half the time the saves are easy to make, quit complaining and make higher saves. second don't quote me on spells I know them and their uses. third IGMS is the basic sword for a mage its like saying "hey mister fighter put down your fallen paladin and use that stick instead because i'm complaining that you can kill me easily with it"... less QQ man seriously it is easily possible to kill a mage even if they are useing those spells it takes tactics and well thought out plan I don't expect you to know what i'm talking about Loki... AND FOR THE RECORD go ahead and freaking change BIGBY I DON'T CARE I DON'T EVEN USE IT when its changed don't cry about something else just because your fighter is getting killed by a mage... p.s. heres a hint... holy sword, spell mantle, KD TADA youve killed a mage........ and If I need to be more specific... greater spell mantle will distract the mage into useing mords or some other form of dispell and holy sword cannot be dispelled being as its on your sword by the time hes dispelled your mantle your face to face spam that KD away and youve got him knocked down his shields will be removed via holy sword.... wow... now that was tough...
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Post by Dethklok on Nov 8, 2008 16:20:23 GMT -5
First off, I dont have a problem with igms, I was referring to the small amount of effort/skill it takes to kill someone using BFH. Also, the reflex and will saves ARE hard to resist for most melee builds, and if you fail either one you're screwed. Not many Strength builds can make a save in the mid 40's or higher when their reflex/will saves are around 24. GTC can also effectively disable multiple enemies, making it even more useful. Bedsides, spells like BFH or GTC shouldnt work "half the time", they are currently far too powerful to have odds that high.
And Im not crying about anything, anyone with half a brain can see that these spells are way too powerful to remain unchanged. And just because you dont use BFH makes it alright? Please.
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Post by Dethklok on Nov 8, 2008 16:28:27 GMT -5
You obviously have no idea what Im talking about Tarnos. It is also fairly obvious that you have never fought a mage with a melee build. Like i said before, protections such as Spell Mantle can be stripped faster than you can cast them, so they are only really useful for the initial assault. Also, the effects of "Holy Avenger" took a serious nerfing in the update to version 1.69. It now gives you an effective caster level of 10, regardless of your actual pally level. Thus, you cannot dispel anything unless it was cast by someone with 30 or less caster levels (10 + 1d20 = no more than 30). Even then you only have a 25 or 50 percent chance for it to trigger, and it will also not work unless your attack causes damage. This spell is now useless against any mage above 30th level. ***********
Edited by bhale187 for content-Personal attacks will not be tolerated on the forums or in game.
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Post by Tarnos on Nov 8, 2008 16:33:24 GMT -5
change bigbys lol I dont care I specificly stated that go ahead please change it I dont wanna hear it anymore and yes it is possible to make high saves and have an effective fighter build pants did it why cant you? also Tony has done it too his fighter builds are pretty good at shrugging it off and have you ever... EVER played table top D&D? too powerfull? you make me laugh these spells are childs play and go ahead and say this isnt Table top its NWN a computer game...... the fact still stands that this is a faction of D&D and you are getting off so much easier because NWN downgraded all its spells from table top form... seriously this place is turning into WoW next people are gona complain that Clerics harm is too cheap... or that weapon masters hit too hard... changing one part of a broken system doesnt fix it in most cases it can make things worse but for the sake of argument please change the spells the whining about mages being too overpowered is giving me a headache...
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Post by bhale187 on Nov 8, 2008 16:38:23 GMT -5
change bigbys lol I dont care I specificly stated that go ahead please change it I dont wanna hear it anymore and yes it is possible to make high saves and have an effective fighter build pants did it why cant you? also Tony has done it too his fighter builds are pretty good at shrugging it off and have you ever... EVER played table top D&D? too powerfull? you make me laugh these spells are childs play and go ahead and say this isnt Table top its NWN a computer game...... the fact still stands that this is a faction of D&D and you are getting off so much easier because NWN downgraded all its spells from table top form... seriously this place is turning into WoW next people are gona complain that Clerics harm is too cheap... or that weapon masters hit too hard... changing one part of a broken system doesnt fix it in most cases it can make things worse but for the sake of argument please change the spells the whining about mages being too overpowered is giving me a headache... Then stay out of the discussion. Bigsby is over powered, so is harm, and NwN spells are far more powerful than PnP D&D. |
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Post by loki on Nov 8, 2008 17:08:02 GMT -5
change bigbys lol I dont care I specificly stated that go ahead please change it I dont wanna hear it anymore and yes it is possible to make high saves and have an effective fighter build pants did it why cant you? also Tony has done it too his fighter builds are pretty good at shrugging it off and have you ever... EVER played table top D&D? too powerfull? you make me laugh these spells are childs play and go ahead and say this isnt Table top its NWN a computer game...... the fact still stands that this is a faction of D&D and you are getting off so much easier because NWN downgraded all its spells from table top form... seriously this place is turning into WoW next people are gona complain that Clerics harm is too cheap... or that weapon masters hit too hard... changing one part of a broken system doesnt fix it in most cases it can make things worse but for the sake of argument please change the spells the whining about mages being too overpowered is giving me a headache... Then stay out of the discussion. Bigsby is over powered, so is harm, and NwN spells are far more powerful than PnP D&D. Did someone hit a raw nerve ? |
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Post by bhale187 on Nov 8, 2008 17:16:12 GMT -5
just saying...if the discussion is un-nerving why not just stay out of it?
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Post by Pants on Nov 8, 2008 19:43:19 GMT -5
change bigbys lol I dont care I specificly stated that go ahead please change it I dont wanna hear it anymore and yes it is possible to make high saves and have an effective fighter build pants did it why cant you? also Tony has done it too his fighter builds are pretty good at shrugging it off and have you ever... EVER played table top D&D? too powerfull? you make me laugh these spells are childs play and go ahead and say this isnt Table top its NWN a computer game...... the fact still stands that this is a faction of D&D and you are getting off so much easier because NWN downgraded all its spells from table top form... seriously this place is turning into WoW next people are gona complain that Clerics harm is too cheap... or that weapon masters hit too hard... changing one part of a broken system doesnt fix it in most cases it can make things worse but for the sake of argument please change the spells the whining about mages being too overpowered is giving me a headache... Then stay out of the discussion. Bigsby is over powered, so is harm, and NwN spells are far more powerful than PnP D&D. Wrong you are about Nwn spells being more overpowered... Heres a exact quote out of the Epic level spell book..... Vengeful Gaze of GodTransmutation Spellcraft DC: 419 Components: V,S Casting Time: 1 action Range: 12,000 ft. Target: one creature, or up to a 10-foot cube of nonliving matter in line of sight Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude half Spell Resistance: Yes To Develop: 3,771,000 gp; 76 days; 143,640 XP. Seed: destroy (DC 29). Factor: increase damage to 305d6 (+570 DC), 1-action casting time (+20 DC). Mitigating factor: 200d6 backlash (-200 DC) The target of this spell is subject to a furry like unto heavenly wrath that deals 305d6 points of damage (or half of that if a fortitude save succeeds). If the target is reduced to -10 hit points or less ( or a construct, object, or undead is reduced to 0 hit points), it is utterly destroyed as if disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. Channeling such terrific forces has its price, and the caster is likewise dealt 200d6 points of damage as your eyes bleed and your skin convulses when the power is released. This spell often kills the caster, but it's often worth it. Note: Table 3-4: Average Damage Dice is useful if you dont't want to roll hundreds of 6-sided dice. I play table top Dnd every wednesday... Plenty more were that came from... More overpowered... I laugh at that... |
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Post by bhale187 on Nov 8, 2008 20:22:50 GMT -5
Then stay out of the discussion. Bigsby is over powered, so is harm, and NwN spells are far more powerful than PnP D&D. Wrong you are about Nwn spells being more overpowered... Heres a exact quote out of the Epic level spell book..... Vengeful Gaze of GodTransmutation Spellcraft DC: 419 Components: V,S Casting Time: 1 action Range: 12,000 ft. Target: one creature, or up to a 10-foot cube of nonliving matter in line of sight Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude half Spell Resistance: Yes To Develop: 3,771,000 gp; 76 days; 143,640 XP. Seed: destroy (DC 29). Factor: increase damage to 305d6 (+570 DC), 1-action casting time (+20 DC). Mitigating factor: 200d6 backlash (-200 DC) The target of this spell is subject to a furry like unto heavenly wrath that deals 305d6 points of damage (or half of that if a fortitude save succeeds). If the target is reduced to -10 hit points or less ( or a construct, object, or undead is reduced to 0 hit points), it is utterly destroyed as if disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. Channeling such terrific forces has its price, and the caster is likewise dealt 200d6 points of damage as your eyes bleed and your skin convulses when the power is released. This spell often kills the caster, but it's often worth it. Note: Table 3-4: Average Damage Dice is useful if you dont't want to roll hundreds of 6-sided dice. I play table top Dnd every wednesday... Plenty more were that came from... More overpowered... I laugh at that... Nice try... That's an epic spell, not a spell, and from 3.0, you know the version of PnP that lasted a whole 2 years before WotC realized it was too flawed to fix so they released 3.5. BTW, did you notice that spell you listed is also going to kill the caster and takes 76 DAYS to cast? |
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Post by Dethklok on Nov 8, 2008 21:38:47 GMT -5
Regardless of how powerful spells may or may not be in pnp D&D, it has no effect upon pvp in NWN. Nobody here cares how good your casters are in pnp guys, thats not what we're discussing on this thread.
Tarnos:
By now you have made it abundantly clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. Holy Sword is useless, Spell Mantles are easy to breach, and BFH IS vastly overpowered. Also, I never said that its not possible to make a melee build with high saves, I was speaking in general. Your saves are based upon what classes you take, abilities, feats, and gear. Weapon masters get a high reflex save on levelup, whereas an RDD would get a high fortitude and will. That said, im not surprised that Pants and Tony's weapon masters' reflex saves are higher than an RDD's would be. Since most melee builds are not weapon masters, I'd say that most do not have a high reflex, and are even more susceptible to falling prone from GTC. This is game mechanics...you should look it up sometime.
If you do decide to post here again, do try to have an actual argument, instead of bringing up random, irrelevant things like table top D&D or how often you use BFH. And try to use actual punctuation as well, it gets confusing when every sentence begins and ends with "...".
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Post by Tarnos on Nov 8, 2008 21:57:20 GMT -5
QQ more and quit bringing up BFH as stated I dont care about it please change it and quit whining to me about how overpowered it is and yes I DO know about stats, armor bonuses, and classes that effect your saves I know all too well so please do me a favor...? stop picking me out of the group just because you get whooped in PvP against a mage cry more it really makes me smile knowing that im getting into your head. p.s Holy sword adds holy avenger which strips buffs dont tell me its useless
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