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Post by Tarnos on Nov 30, 2007 18:50:22 GMT -5
The magic missle spells are never miss spells there is no reflex save for that exact reason
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Post by Pants on Nov 30, 2007 18:58:10 GMT -5
Magic Missile spell + reflex save = big uber rogues...
Magic missile is supposed to be a never miss spell... as Tarnos above stated. If you were to add a reflex save on the MM spell it would be just like saying NO! bitch slapping the spell caster and making him a paraplegic cripple. This reflex business is just madness... THIS IS MADNESS! NO... THIS IS REDEMPTION! Nuff' said...
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Post by niphredil on Nov 30, 2007 20:35:10 GMT -5
give MM's, IMS and IGMS a reflex save you just blew my mind... orb alur shield + divine grace = LOL |
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Post by renegade on Dec 1, 2007 7:31:31 GMT -5
Yes I know what they are MEANT to be which is why I suggested changing them - this is the spell change thread not the "lets tell you what a spell is meant to be thread". If you have a mage facing a rogue then you may want to try some spells with a different save type. If your mage can not cope without missiles then take some time learning the benefits of other spells or become a PM and laugh at everyone. The line "this is redemption...NUFF said" worries me slightly more as to the general standard of player. A rogue would stand a greater chance of perhaps escaping a mage but reduce him to a dribbling mess....oh woe for your mage.
As for use of rare gear with imp evasion - well maybe (imo) class specific feats should not be included on boss gear, as they negate the benefits of taking said class and do not encourage a diverse PC base.
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Post by niphredil on Dec 1, 2007 14:59:37 GMT -5
the weird thing is that the toolset does not allow addition of evasion to items, but instead only imp evasion. "oh well" says the owner of said item.
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Post by loignar on Dec 1, 2007 21:52:38 GMT -5
There is an item available with Imp Ev? That's just dumb
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Post by Pants on Dec 2, 2007 0:53:01 GMT -5
Yes I know what they are MEANT to be which is why I suggested changing them - this is the spell change thread not the "lets tell you what a spell is meant to be thread". If you have a mage facing a rogue then you may want to try some spells with a different save type. If your mage can not cope without missiles then take some time learning the benefits of other spells or become a PM and laugh at everyone. The line "this is redemption...NUFF said" worries me slightly more as to the general standard of player. A rogue would stand a greater chance of perhaps escaping a mage but reduce him to a dribbling mess....oh woe for your mage. As for use of rare gear with imp evasion - well maybe (imo) class specific feats should not be included on boss gear, as they negate the benefits of taking said class and do not encourage a diverse PC base. Whoa... 1) the this is redemption thing was changing a line from 300 "this is sparta!" to "this is redemption!" 2) the nuf said meaning i ddnt have anything to say... 3) the woe for my mage... i hate mages i cant stand them i wouldnt care if they were removed from the game... 4) i also think that its kinda odd that they provide im evasion for items and not evasion And i was by no means attacking anyone (for future refernce). I would say more along the linesof critizism (dunno if i spelled that right and both attacking & critzism may be close to the same). Sorry if my unruly spelling offends people... |
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Post by bhale187 on Sept 22, 2008 16:45:10 GMT -5
give MM's, IMS and IGMS a reflex save I'd like to revive this discussion. Although I'd guess this is going to likely eliminate the use of IGMS on bosses, I think it needs done to give non-casters a fighting chance in PvP. |
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Post by bhale187 on Sept 22, 2008 16:47:56 GMT -5
I'd like to see ALL Bigsby spells get a FORT save or a save vs Discipline. Another attempt at giving non casters a chance in PvP.
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Post by bhale187 on Sept 22, 2008 16:53:18 GMT -5
Give Harm a FORT save--more of the same reasoning.
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Post by Dethklok on Sept 23, 2008 12:40:23 GMT -5
Either strength or ac and strength is used to resist bigby spells, changing it to a fortitude save or discipline check would still only apply to fighters and strength builds...
I'd definitely like to see bigby spells altered, as they're way too powerful now. Maybe make it last 1d4 rounds instead of 1 per lvl, because thats just a ridiculous amount of time to be totally helpless for...also you could make it so the higher of a character's strength or dexterity is used for resisting it, as that would make it possible for rogues and dex buds to resist it.
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Post by littletall on Sept 23, 2008 19:31:21 GMT -5
like IGMS hasnt been nerfed enough yet. pretty much anything that is cool for each build is going to annoy someone else, but nerfing all those things really isnt the way to go. as for bigby, the chances of your target resisting it depend on which one you use against them, and if the correct one is used, success should follow in almost all cases. because mages arent supposed to have a lot of hp (although we have seen some unusual mage builds, havent we now?  and that means a melee build should be able to take them down with one or two strikes, IF he gets in range. therefore mages absolutely need to have spells that keep melee builds at a distance if they wanna survive, and they need to have those spells not fail 90% of the time (but rather work 90% of the time). yes there are other spells that have similar effects, like web, grease, entangle and so on, but their problem is exactly that, they fail to "hold" the enemy 90% of the time, and sometimes they even manage to "hold" the caster instead. I do agree that 1 round/lvl duration is too long, but I think 1d4 would be too short. because basically any change made will not only affect pvp, but also pvm, and to reach lvl40 (with no remorts) you need to kill thousands of monsters, and may god give you guys long life and plenty of play time and no server wipes but I still doubt you'll ever get that many pvp kills (unless you turn your life around to dedicate yourself to that goal , so I dont think its worth changing something that will give you a better chance to win a pvp fight but at the same time make lvling hell(ish |
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Post by bhale187 on Sept 23, 2008 19:41:52 GMT -5
Either strength or ac and strength is used to resist bigby spells, changing it to a fortitude save or discipline check would still only apply to fighters and strength builds... . Clenched Fist gets a FORT save Crushing hand does a ranged touch attack (that is harder to hit on a rogue or monk than fighter since it ignores armor) Forceful hand does a STR check Grasping hand does a touch attack Interposing gets no defense roll Maybe a FORT save is not the best answer, but there should be a better way to defend against these in PvP, especially Grasping Hand and Forceful hand. Perhaps a reflex save AND a STR check or Reflex Save AND a Discipline check. |
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Post by bhale187 on Sept 23, 2008 19:49:02 GMT -5
Leveling a caster hellish? Come on! Leveling for a caster is insanely easy, and changing these suggested spells would have zero effect on that. No-one with any clue how to play a caster uses bigsby or IGMS to grind levels, everyone uses AoE spells that play on the stupidity of Nwn AI system. The suggested spells are used entirely for PvP, and in the case of the missiles they are used on bosses.
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Post by Dethklok on Sept 23, 2008 20:29:11 GMT -5
First of all, it is extremely difficult to resist bigby spells, especially for non-strength builds. Also, 1d4 rounds is MORE than enough time to buff yourself, run away, or even kill the person. A hasted caster can cast 2 or 3 spells per round, and they'll probably just cast bibgys again once you get up anyway. Knockdown lasts 1 round for fighters, and its much easier for casters to resist than it is for someone to resist bigbys.
AS for IGMS, a reflex save for half damage would make it possible to resist without making dex builds totally immune to it (although imp evasion might interfere with that). An item that has maybe 5/- resistance to magic damage would also help, as it wouldnt totally nullify IGMS's power, but it would soak 100 of the 240 damage IGMS does when maximized.
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and that means a melee build should be able to take them down with one or two strikes, IF he gets in range. therefore mages absolutely need to have spells that keep melee builds at a distance if they wanna survive, and they need to have those spells not fail 90% of the time (but rather work 90% of the time). yes there are other spells that have similar effects, like web, grease, entangle and so on, but their problem is exactly that, they fail to "hold" the enemy 90% of the time, and sometimes they even manage to "hold" the caster instead. I do agree that 1 round/lvl duration is too long, but I think 1d4 would be too short. because basically any change made will not only affect pvp, but also pvm, and to reach lvl40 (with no remorts) you need to kill thousands of monsters, and may god give you guys long life and plenty of play time and no server wipes but I still doubt you'll ever get that many pvp kills (unless you turn your life around to dedicate yourself to that goal