Requested spell changes

[MarkhamOkhotnik]

These are Divine Spells:

Generally:

For all summon-type spells that are divine in nature (as opposed to summon monster): Buff the summons to make them comparable to the summon monster series of spells

Specifically, by level:

I.

Shield of Faith: Increase AC bonus to +6 (at 36th level)
II.

Negative Energy Ray: Increase cap to 10d6, or remove level cap altogether.

III.

Searing Light: Remove level cap
Glyph of Warding: Remove level cap
Magical Vestment: Remove +5 bonus cap
Darkfire: Remove level cap

IV.

Hammer of the Gods: Drop cap, also check into why mobs are never stunned as per spell description.
Greater Magical Weapon: Remove +5 bonus cap

V.

Flame Strike: Remove level cap
Spell Resistance: Increase base SR bonus to +16/ +1 per level.

VI.

Undeath to Death: Remove level cap for affected creatures
Planar Ally: See above general commentary

VII.

Word of Faith: Apparently does not work on mobs in Redemption. Please investigate and correct, if possible.
Destruction: Increase damage inflicted on successful save.

VIII.

Fire Storm: Remove level cap.
Sunbeam: Remove level cap.
Earthquake: Remove level cap.

IX.

No changes suggested at present.

Epic.

I understand that many changes have already been made. After I have had opportunity to test drive some of the changed epic spells I may have additional suggestions.

[renegade]

After making a forray into the Clerical world recently I can confirm that in a mid level area (Atans) Hammer of the Gods does indeed stun mobs and WoF does blind them (haven't tried it against the summons yet tho) and SoV absolutely destroys the lot of them

For pure damage output against mobs I think the Cleric spells are stronger than mage spells - the trouble for the Cleric in PvP against a mage is the lack of Mantles (which can be substituted with an improved SR) the crappy Greater Dispelling (no substitute at all for Mord) and the very annoying Bigby's which well, sort of end the whole thing.

My input to the above list would be to give the Cleric/Druid an improved Dispell if that is possible

[Arioch]

For what its worth, dispell was increased! Thanks for noticing the hammer and wof changes... Some of those caps may yet be removed (I did quite a bit of play testing and felt more from the player base was needed), some others will not. For example pay attention to firestorm, I made it more powerful now than if I had simply removed the cap. I do appreciate any and all thoughts and ideas so keep them coming... however...

I really do not forsee any of the buff spells going above +6, as a player I thought they should go way up, but after watching the server go scroll crazy I think it would be a very bad idea to allow all the said buffs to go any higher. Now if we do something to change scrolls then I will take a much harder look at them.

[Helm]

*hates scrolls for munchkins

[The Messiah]

+16 with max cap SR will give you 56, which might protect you against casters with 10 PM and 1-2 bard/rogue levels, since they have a low caster level. You need SR minimum in the 60s to guard effectively against caster level 35 to 40. I personally have plans of taking a look at the bigby spells and at Mords and the dispels again, I'm not actually sure how they work, so if there are big discrepancies I am going to try and weed them out.

The way I see it, every dispel should be a caster level vs. caster level check, with success depending on how much one is better than the other. Greater and Mords should give bonuses to the check, but a Mords from a scroll shouldn't dispel a level 40's stuff. A level 40 casting Mords should have a great chance of dispelling a level 40's stuff.

To the other suggestions:

Shield of Faith: Not a bad idea, requires basically a topped out caster.

Negative Energy Ray: Should be about the same formula as Searing Light, only Negative Energy damage.

Searing Light: Not sure if Arioch changed it much from my change, but it was capping at level 30 instead of capping 20, and did pretty big damage with empower/maximize.

Glyph of Warding: Hmm, doesn't get used...boost it!!

Magical Vestment: Like SoF it should give a +6 bonus at most, if you're basically pure caster.

Darkfire: This is already a wicked spell, average +1 more damage than flame weapon at cap. With builds like Jodo, it adds like 30-40% to his damage.

Hammer of the Gods: I see many mobs stunned, but most higher level ones either a) Have godly saves or b) Are immune

Greater Magical Weapon: Nope, EB buff will stay +5.

Flame Strike: Needs buffing, yes.

Spell Resistance: Torn on this one, the SR from the current one is already great such that you're resistant to many low and mid-level creatures, and also some high level ones that use special abilities, but against the big bag casters or PvP mages/clerics you aren't protected much.

Undeath to Death: Needs playtesting. I mean, it's already pretty good, a casting cleric in the mid 20s can have 12-15 of the things with metamagic, allowing you to clear out an area like CC (1-3 vampires killed per UtD).

Planar Ally: Yo face!

Word of Faith: Uh? I rarely see it to stun, because a lot of monsters make the save or are immune to stun. I see it stun Atan Legionaires though. And the Blind certainly works, indiscriminate blind may actually be too powerful, we'll see.

Destruction: Yeah, this is a crappy death spell in the league of death spells, might as well make it a nice single target damage spell.

Fire Storm: This spell is like flamestrike, in that it blows, except it manages to cause more lag too.

Sunbeam: This is Bioware taking Fire Storm and going, "All right boys, we need this to suck MORE."

Earthquake: Blah blah blah.

9th level spells:

SoV is nice now. Gate needs some tweaking but from a "power level" standpoint it's cozy. Summon Creature IX is nice now. Undeath to Death is a fine buff. Energy Drain is, as per most maladictions, quite mean if you land it, but not REALLY worth the 9th level slot. Arena fodder. Implosion requires a rather easy save OR a protective spell to ward against it, but not both.

Epics:

Hellball: I like it!
Greater Ruin: I like it a lot!
Dragon Knight: Still needs work, and we're workin' on it...
Mummy Dust: Hands down the best spell in the game now.

[renegade]

I was making my last char (Bad Juju) as a pure caster Cleric - I wanted to test him out against the mages in RD to see how he would fare. It would be great if a Cleric could become a viable alternative to using a mage (in PvP and PvM). With that in mind "Silence" would also be a great spell to look at - watch that Exalted run!

My next project was to be a high level Bard - I think War Cry and Dirge (especially) are both calling out for a huge boost...Go Bard!

[The Messiah]

Silence and...deafness too! Yes, yes....BUUURN! Ahem. Bards rock.

[sylvantis]

a decently built bard could be a deadly pvp character...really good ac/ab(with songs) decent dmg reflecting(sonic dmg shield for 1d6+level sonic dmg each hit) great skills, throw silence on yourself and beat the snot out of a mage or priest.

[renegade]

Yes the standard Bard/RDD/PM is a decent enough build - maybe in a balanced arena server such as BoW a Bard does have more staying power but on RD a high level Bard isn't really gonna cause a decent melee build any problems, which is ok I suppose because I think they are very interesting chars to play. Thanks for reminding me to add Wounding Whispers to the spell buffy uppy list for Bards -

Bard Spells to get some TLC :

War Cry - raise the DC on fear
Dirge - again raise the DC on negative effects
Wounding Whispers - increase damage to 1d20 + Bard level or/and as it does sonic damage maybe a chance to stun an opponent?

Ren

[Arioch]

Do you all even know that before this copyover wounding whispers didnt even work right? Now its even better than before. No need to move it again at this point.
**Again, keep the ideas coming!** just dont expect a spell copyover every week or something, it takes quite a bit of time and there are many subtle as well as big adjustments that we (I) am still waiting to see the full effect of after much more playing.

Now where is the 40th level Maria Carey at....

[MarkhamOkhotnik]

Also,

Is it possible to create a list of what spells have been changed, and how they have been changed, so that the casters have a better idea of what their spells actually do...

Hell, if you e-mail or PM it to me, I will edit it and pretty it up for publication either here or on the redemption web site.

[havarti]

Speak to me more of the Redemption web site
And I like the idea of making underused spells better
Quick note - Druids have Sunbeam and Sunburst on the same level . . . what the heck? I mean, it's basically the same spell, but one of them is better than the other by 5d6 against undead, permanent blindness, and no saving throw against the damage, making the other one utterly worthless. I'm not sure which one is which, but the weaker one could use a bit of tweaking.
energy drain - remove the touch attack. Suddenly you have a spell that makes characters with low fortitudes unhappy.

[Tempus]

I would like to open an old wound: True Seeing and PvP

Suggested Change:
Add modifiers to Spot and Listen skills and remove automatic detection of stealth. Leave ALL other aspects as is. I suggest a +20 to both Spot and Listen.


Skills that combat HiPS/Invisibility:
Spot/Listen vs. Hide/MS (listen for invisibility)

Spells that combat HiPS/Invisibility:
Clariaudience/Clarivoidence (+10 spot/listen), Amplify (+20 listen)
Invisibility Purge, See Invisibility, True Seeing (for invisibility, etheral or sanctuary), Dispel line of spells

Racial Abilities:
Elves, Gnomes, Halflings (+2 Listen)
Elves (+2 Spot)

Feats:
Alertness (+2 Spot/Listen), Skill Foci (+3/+10), Blooded (+2 Spot)

[glow=red,2,300]>>>>>Important Stuff Here[/glow]
Adding bonuses to Spot and Listen for True Seeing would balance the playing field for classes that make use of HiPS or Hide and MS as thier bread and butter.

All classes have a tough time compensating for their weaknesses. Whether its a low AB, poor discipline, a lack of UMD or Spell Craft, but this is the way it should be-DIVERSITY is the spice of life after all!

As it is now, True Seeing forces those classes that would normally utilize Hide, MS or HiPS as part of their innate abilities, to find alternate skills, feats and sometimes builds just to survive. This often times forces the player to abandon the prime abilites and skills that set their class apart from the rest.

One could argue that the Dispel line of spells works (to remove True Seeing) but even a Greater Dispelling becomes null and void against a level 25 caster.

By implementing a skill increase instead of an automatic stealth detection you are bringing balance to something that (at least on the RD server) is clearly broken. Casters will now share the burden of employing alternate methods (such as using spells or feats they previously ignored) to combat a Rogue with high Hide and MS or a Shadow Dancer with HiPS.
---Remember, 1 level of SD just for the HiPS does not ensure that you will automatically hide in plain sight. One must also make the investment in the Hide and Move Silently skills as well as ensure that thier equipped amor is in line with these skills.

It was mentioned in another thread the following Quote:
"43 ranks hide/MS, 15 dex mod = 58 without counting equipment (where you can get upwards of +20) or skill focuses (up to +13). Granted equipment is our doing, and there could be more Spot/Listen out there. But a deck out SD-type can have a hide/MS without the skill focuses around 80, no sweat. 90, with the focuses."

[glow=red,2,300]>>>>>Math Supported Logic Here[/glow]
To that I would like to mention that without equipment specific to Hide/MS, a +15 dex bonus is only obtained with equipment AND at the expense of all other general feats to aquire the Great Dexterity feat. Also, how is an 80-90 (if obtainable with a character that is still playable) any different from say a fighter with the same ranks in Discipline?
So, some quick math here to support my pitch (for us nerds)---!
*please note this is an extreme case and may not include ALL possibilities but does inlude the basics.

Caster
True Seeing (+20 Spot/Listen)
Max Spot/Listen skill (+20)
Alertness Feat (+2 Spot/Listen)
Clairaudiance/Clarivoidence (+10 Spot/Listen)
Wisdom of 10 w/Owls Wisdom (+2 max)
Skill Focus Spot (+3 Spot)
Blooded (+2 Spot)
TOTAL: 59 Spot/54 Listen (Bard w/ Amplify = 59 Spot/74 Listen)

Rogue/SD
Max Hide/MS skill (+43)
Skill Focus Hide (+3)
Skill MS (+3)
Epic Skill Focus Hide (+10)
Epic Skill Focus MS (+10)
Stealthy Feat (+2 Hide/MS)
Dexterity of 10 w/Cats Grace (+2 max)
TOTAL: 60 Hide/MS

Yes, these are base numbers and would not include any additional wisdom or dexterity modifiers. Clearly, a high dexterity player would surpass what a caster could obtain through spells alone but is that not what a Rogue (SD) is made for? Quite the contrary, a caster could just as easily obtain the additional gear to bolster thier Spot/Listen skills as easliy as a any other play could.

All I am saying is we can make this more balanced than it already is. Give some power back to the Rogue/Shadow Dancers and lets see if those caster-types can start thinking outside the box as well! ;D ;D ;D

[Tony654]

Hmm, sounds like someone wants to make a Rogue/SD.

[Tempus]

LOL!
I have Tony..Rogue/Shadow Dancer/Harper Scout!