Questions - when they come

[Rulin Pendragon]

Oh and now if you kill someone in Nefte, the townspeople get slaughtered by the guards. I collected well over 100k in gold drops and item drops in a few hours the other night, so if that stays in the server, getting the price for the portals will still be easy...

Ras

[Kyna]

I assume that role playing here is a bad idea (else I could "claim" the uncivil tongue in my head is just my character speaking.. ;-) (that was supposed to be funny.......)

Anyway, Mardok and I have talked about this quite a bit - and I have a few extra thoughts I'd like to toss out to be considered.

Ports and Recall Stones - One aspect I liked was the variety it allowed in parties. I don't mind having to walk between locations - or using a potion of speed or a different pair of boots... or any other equip that could drop that would give you haste - but it does discourage me from playing my alt with Monks - or other characters that have a natural haste built in. So that was one thing that was nice......I didn't feel like a drag on the party, because everyone was having to wait for me, or come and get me when I got lost (hmmm.... can we make a map??? dare I volunteer???)

For me, the part of the portal loss that kinda bothers and frustrates me, was that I spent time doing the quests - in order to get them. I'm not a very accomplished player, and it cost me a great deal in heals many many times (darn jello!). If they are going to stay gone, I feel that the characters should at least be given something else in trade for completing those quests. I kinda feel like the repo man came and I woke up with an empty driveway - but didn't know I should have hidden the car in the garage.........

The fire kits are kinda of a sore spot. I agree that I think it is unreasonable to be expected to carry fire kits and be restricted in where they are used. Most campsites that I use in reality, have the supplies there for a campfire. I NEVER have to bring wood with me, to a site that I pay for, or.. I can gather up wood from the forest. Since the 2nd option would be a scripting nightmare, to simply have us "Pay a camp host" would not be a difficult thing, and I think would make a decent compromise, and fit into the roleplaying aspect of the server more. Because when I go backpacking into the woods? i PROMISE you i'm not packing in wood. I'm packing in matches.... which could also be a secondary option. We would have to have an "item" like a pack of 100 arrows - that we would have to "use" to start a fire at a campsite - but the wood and such is already there. there are some other aspects that could be brought in... like if we gather wood... we should be able to trade it to a "camp host" for matches.... instead of just selling it to the dude near SR... of course.. the SR guy should pay you more than what you'd pay for the matches........ but its a thought

As Mardok - I haven't had much of a chance to take a look at the changes yet, This is based off of discussions, and how I've played in live games. I hope that it is taken in spirit of suggestion that it is offered in,,, (of course... while we are talking about suggestions... we still need a chick faction in Dominia!!!!! - one where the ladies can plot the demise of the guys..... like Tino - Silence - Bellad and Mardok... don't want them to get to big for their britches......) ;-p

[Kyna]

sorry... mardok is telling me that I should also specifically mention... that while I think that paying to rest make sense... that the AMOUNT needs some attention. With the loss of the recall stones - the $$ per hour that can be gained in farming is going to be much lower, so as with inflation an the consumer price index in reality, prices should be modified in accordance - for instance, look at the regulations regarding milk and dairy pricing -since it is an item that is considered a necessity. You also want to assume that the time spent in farming vs time spent in adventuring will also affect the CPI......... ok I think I'm going to stop now - I think I've spent WAY to much time doing the books lately.........

[Tempus]

All worthy suggestions. We appreciate the time it has taken you to articulate it all.

Having said that, there are a few things going on at the moment:
1- The DM Team is talking about these new events
2- The lastest copyover apparently had some unforeseen scripting issues
3- I am in Alaska on business

What this all means is that currently, RD is shut down. It will be back up this evening (6 or so EST) but on the pre-copy over version AND, come the first week or two of April, another round of changes will be made and posted.

[Kyna]

I don't think any of us tell you this often enough, but thank you. We really do appreciate everything that you do to keep redemption up and running. We realize just how much work it really is - and how much time you end up dedicating to it.

THANK YOU!

[Dethklok]

I like what you've done with the feat changes, especially with the barbarian rages. I did notice that a few of the Arcane Archer feats seemed a little powerful though. Most notably the dc on the Death Arrow and the damage boost to the Seeker Arrows.

The Seeker arrow automatically hits, deals normal damage x4 (regular criticals are only x3), AND adds on another 15d20 damage on top of that. Now i rarely build archers, but average damage with a good bow would probably be around 60ish? That times 4 gives you an average of 240 base damage, plus another 15-300. Oh, and you get two per day. As opposed to G-Ruin, which is once per day, much weaker, and requires you to spend a feat to get it (while Seeker Arrow comes free with 4th and 6th AA level).

Im not positive that DW will block a Death Arrow, but even so, i think a 55 fortitude save is a bit high for an instant death effect. Though, a mage could likely get their death magic dc's to 55 as well, and they can cast many more times. Maybe its just my distaste for instant death effects, but i dont like it.

Also, i like the RTS concept better than the multiple recall stones. Pre-wipe we didnt have either, and we managed just fine (especially loners, who didnt even have the basic 3 portals). In reality, 50k isnt all that much. Selling 20 items in the TG gets you that, and arent there stacks of 20k laying around everywhere nowadays? And you can always add a portal to your hall if you want to save on the cash. The trouble im having with the current system is not knowing which recall item people are using when they run from me, since they all look the same. Aside from that, i need half a page in my inventory to hold them all, which is like 1/12 of my total space since i have NO BOXES. Which reminds me of a much larger problem...I GOTS NO BOXES!!!

[Tempus]

Mar 26, 2010 15:40:32 GMT -5 Dethklok said:

The Seeker arrow automatically hits, deals normal damage x4 (regular criticals are only x3), AND adds on another 15d20 damage on top of that. Now i rarely build archers, but average damage with a good bow would probably be around 60ish? That times 4 gives you an average of 240 base damage, plus another 15-300. Oh, and you get two per day. As opposed to G-Ruin, which is once per day, much weaker, and requires you to spend a feat to get it (while Seeker Arrow comes free with 4th and 6th AA level).

Correct to an extent. Your numbers are just slightly elevated. Base damage is: Strength Modifier + weapon (short = d6) or (long= d8) + Weapon Specializations. So maybe a good base number with crits and a decent bow is more like 30 on a critical. THEN add the AA enchantment level + d20. So w/ a minimum of 13 levels (enough to cast the seeker twice), and scoring a critical hit, the AA could feesible do roughly 90 - 100 damage per shot (AVERAGE Damage). Jack the AA levels up to 20 (character level 27), the damage increases to roughly 240. At level 30 (maxed), roughly 350 (so with two critical shots, about 700 damage). Agreed, not too shabby. Overpowered? I dont really agreed with that. If you wanted to compare it to just ONE mage spell, GR, it does sorta top it out (GR = 400 damage) but if you were to compare it to IGMS or a combo of GR and HB and now we are about even again.

Im not positive that DW will block a Death Arrow, but even so, i think a 55 fortitude save is a bit high for an instant death effect. Though, a mage could likely get their death magic dc's to 55 as well, and they can cast many more times. Maybe its just my distaste for instant death effects, but i dont like it.

DW does counter this.

.... i have NO BOXES. Which reminds me of a much larger problem...I GOTS NO BOXES!!!

Noted! ;D

[Dethklok]

Hmm, i thought by base damage you meant your normal attack damage from arrows, AA eb bonus, ect. Since thats not the case, im going to have to agree that this isnt overpowered.

[bhale187]

We (the DM team) have been discussing the ways we could best address the recent complaints while still maintaining a balance of the old core ideas of RD and the new ideas needed to keep players happy. At this point nothing is set in stone, but we are considering the following.

On resting, we are thinking of returning to rest anywhere (except towns and bosses areas) with a firekit.

Portals and recalls stones,
We are thinking about a 3 tier system. First tier is everyone getting the recall to home town. Second Tier, public transportation which might be something like the portals in town, but at a lower rate than they currently cost. Third tier will be something like the quests to get a recall stone to another town.
There may be some sort of limitations added to the recall stones such as a % chance of failure rate, or a once per day use (have to rest to use it again), or something along those lines.

Remorts,
We are still considering a host of options to fix the problems with remorts.
One option may be an item--such as a ring, that changes appearance (but not size), adds stat bonuses, some feats, skill bonuses, immunities, etc. The draw back of this is the fact that it has the +12 limit to stats from gear, and it does not apply to prereqs for feats and classes. The bonus of this system is it would allow RD to use the legal only player option which would keep out hacked PCs.
Another option is to keep the old type of remorts, but change the way we do them. Instead of it being an automated system (which is apt to bugs) we would do a manual switch of the .bic file within the leto program. The draw back here is a huge amount of work added to the server holder, and it does not address the hacking problems, the benefit is that it eliminates the errors that often occur in teh automated system.
A third option may be to make remort changes basically just boosts to stats like str, dex, con, etc. This would also be accompanied by an item to cast spells, add skills, etc. The benefit here is the removal of alot of scripts that are bound to slow down the server, and again bypass automated errors. The draw back is the limitations of remorts without giving alot of the options we have now.

[littletall]

resting - thank god though not my favourite system, its still better than the current one
recall - lower cost of portals and failure rate on stones gained from quests all sound good
remorts - I'd say the first option is probably the worst (not sure how big of a problem hacked chars are..... but couldnt they be manually deleted when noticed, banned for repeated offenses?) from a players perspective, the best option is of course the second one but if it cant be done, then the third one will have to do I guess.... :S

[sylvantis]

Not sure how much my words count these days as a frequent quitter of the server but my here are my humble viewpoints on how remorts should be run.

I believe remorting should be a process involving a great deal of DM involvement. I understand this adds more onto the DMs shoulders, but it seems like the build team has spent years of effort trying to automate it for very little gain. When dealing with a player base of 10-15 regulars with another 10-20 who pop in on an irregular basis I don't see hand crafting remorts to be an impossible goal.

Remorting should be a gradual process, similar to how red dragon disciples and palemasters slowly change into their final goals. Maybe some seeking the path of iron golem, would first spent a few quest points, do a fun DM run quest, maybe one that requires a little help from his friends, then get a slight greyish skin tinting and minor boost to golemish stats and minor penalties to the same. After several of these quests Maybe he'd find himself a fully golem.

Harder forms would involve more QP, more quests, and more difficulty in defeating these quests.

I think this system would open up a lot of creativity for both players and DMs. Rather than having a list of OK, these are the forms you may become, a player seeks out his god or demon deity of choice, and explains how he wants to become one of the wee folk. The Dms sets the path and the off we go towards our goal. Maybe a player wants something insane, like trying to transcend into the dread demon-god form similar to the Servant of Xyndeth, or an ancient spirit dragon. I don't think they should be rebuffed, just informed by their god that such goals are likely impossible. Maybe the adventurer fails and just becomes a hatching or imp. But I think some of the fun should be journey to the remort, not just one day mighty warrior, poof wave a gods hand I'm a rock that walks now.

On the balance side of course the DMs should have some sort of list explaining caps that can be granted for the various levels of remorting.

Maybe like.
Weak remort:
2-3 quests
15 quest points
Max bonuses:
+8 total stats, no stats more than +4
No more than 10% total physical immunity and 20% total elemental immunities
No more than 1 5/- resist
1-3 x level 1-3 spell-like ability 1/day

Or your Golemish/elemental pricey remort
4-6 quests
35 QP
Max bonuses:
+16 total stats, no more than +8 to one stat
No more than 50% total phys immune and 100% total elemental immune. No more than 25% immunity on any one dmg type
No more than 2 x 15/-resist
1-3 x level 1-6 spell-like abilities

Or your insane and maybe in 15 years you'll manage this remort, remort
Spirit-Dragon
50-60 quests of extreme difficulty
200 QP
stats bonuses +12 strength +6 con Dex set to 10 +4 mental stats
25% each immunity 100% positive dmg
10/- physical dmg
mords disjunction x3/day, true seeing 1x day, storm of vengance 1x day
--seems little overboard, but when facing quests that require actions like: fighting a real spirit dragon using the holy +1 fork of eating and a trashcan lid w/ no heals, until hobo the level 1 halfling rogue can steal the soul gem from the dragon spirit kings mouth I doubt to many people will advance to the final form.

Just my thoughts, As always i thrive on feedback and look forward to your praising my ginormous intellect.

P.S.

I came claim[/b] golemish as copyrighted word and somehow I spelled ginormous correctly and I didn't even think it was a real word.

[Kyna]

I like the sounds of those suggestions. Especially the recall stones - since it would require certain PC's to rest, when, in the past we haven't had a real need to (like lower lvl fighters) - to increase the actual role play aspect of the game