Questions - when they come

[Tempus]

We could with some digging into the toolset- but for what purpose? Possibly Turning or Planar Turning

It's a VERY good bet that in fact there are NO standard mobs in RD and that ALL have been modified well beyond a standard version.
A semi-accurate standard you could employ in determining HD for these feats (turning) is to add roughly 5-10 more than the appropriate color of the challenge rating (excluding bosses of course).

Not sure what the color CR is? Well, just right click and select Examine.
Purple- 5 + levels higher
Red- 3 - 4 levels higher
Orange- 1 - 2 levels higher
Yellow- same level
Blue- 2 - 3 levels lower
Green- 4 - 5 levels lower
White- 6 + levels lower

So, using this as a guide, if a monster conned purple to you; and you were level 20, the rough estimated HD would be 30 - 33 +.

[villvk]

you got me busted:D
I was thinking about turning character
Thanks for info but I think I cannot be to optimistic for hd
as you guys meddling with stats I think even level 40 cleric would find quite a job turning / killing some of the elemental scum.

I guess some testing on my part is necessary:D

[Tempus]

This is not necessarily a closed chapter. I would like to see more characters focused on such skills as this, would be quite interesting.
I am not sure when, but I would like to add this to this list of things to look at.
I know about 6 months ago, the turning feat was nerffed to aid in such endevours but to what extent, I cannot say.

[villvk]

thanks I looked at them and almost all are impossible to level 40:(
I would be glad to know what nerfing was done:D
keep us posted please

[villvk]

one thing more on this last turning question.
I was wondering does monsters have the same upper class limit 40 as players do?
Because for level 40 some still show impossible.

[loki]

Mar 14, 2009 13:23:48 GMT -5 villvk said:

one thing more on this last turning question.
I was wondering does monsters have the same upper class limit 40 as players do?
Because for level 40 some still show impossible.

No

[Silence]

Ok, first issue with the revised mod. I understand the reasoning behind the portal stones changing to portals in shandy but 50000 gold just to use one?? And on top of that it just ported me. No warning about how much it would cost or an ;are you sure you want to teleport for 50k?' If we have to go back to this type of system at least make it reasonable and friendly..

Silence

[littletall]

I dont understand the reasoning. walking around is in general just a huge waste of time. recall stones solved that problem and actually made playing interesting again (who the **** wants to come play when 50% of the time is spent on walking? unless of course you have several hours of time to camp out at the major lvling areas, which obviously a lot of people dont have), and also the quests provided restrictions so you couldnt get them too soon (meaning you had to walk while you were at an appropriate levels to fight thru the mobs on the way, but later when they become a goddamn annoyance and/or waste of invis, you had the option to port instead).
unless of course the reasoning is that gameplay should be boring as shit, seeing we have so many indicators of that lately? I suppose this is also the reason that we still havent seen the implementation of the great idea about an item that you could "use" on stuff in your inventory and it would take them away and give you their value in gold instead? I dont think people play games so they could do every day stuff like walk around and sell stuff and click like crazy. they play to kill and maim and pillage and rape and so on, you know, the interesting and fun part of games. the boring tedious everyday stuff should be minimized as much as possible.
anyway, this portal price is ridiculous. who in their right mind would use them at such prices??? lets see, first, you have to take a walk (or port there, which is worse, so lets use walk in this simple example) to a place with enough mobs that drop good enough gear. then you have to kill 20 mobs, pick up their gear, and get back. then you need to go to TG, and you're probably encumbered by now so it takes a shitload of time to get there. farming characters usually dont have OL, and OLers cant farm well, so now you need to wait for someone or get another char of yours to open the TG. then you need to go in and sell your stuff, to earn the 50k needed for a port. I COULD HAVE WALKED THREE TIMES TO NEF AND BACK IN THE TIME IT TOOK TO FARM THOSE 50K !!! 15 TIMES TO SR AND BACK!!! WHAT A RIDICULOUSLY OVERPRICED USELESS FEATURE!

second issue: resting. I'm not sure if its really intended to work as it is working right now or not. but right now you can only rest in designated places and only if you have a firekit. so, the original rest spot system where resting was free but limited to certain spots, was deemed to be too easy..... then the firekit system where resting was pricy but available everywhere was deemed too easy also??? and instead, the advantages of both systems were discarded, but the drawbacks were combined into this wonderful system that double screws you? wow. just wow.

[glow=red,2,300]It is ok to be upset but please use more respectful language than an F-bomb. Tyr[/glow]

[bhale187]

I'll let Tempus address these complaints, but I just wanted to remind everyone to keep a civil tongue if you want to keep posting on the forums.

As Tyr said, feel free to express your dislike of anything inthe server, just do so respectfully or not at all.

[Tempus]

Its not the intention of the DM Team to force players into a boring or painful playing experience but, rather provide play that benefits all players.
Part of the struggle with changes that affect the module as a whole (recalls, resting, PC Death, spells, feats, etc.) comes from the fact that there are very different styles of play across players and indeed, different concepts of what this module is designed for.

First off, let me say that Redemeption is (and has always) been a mix of PvP and Role Play. Depending upon who is managing the server however, its tendencies may lean more towards one side of this model or the other.
We are always trying to improve play experience while maintaining values that are true to this core model and this is where we struggle the most.

Now, having said that let me respond to the complaints noted….

Both the Recall and Resting systems have changed in this release:
Recall- requires players to use the RTS (Redemption Transit System). This system allows players to port to predefined locations in Dominia. The current price for said transit is 50,000. Porting to custom locations can be purchased by Clans and added to their Halls.

Resting- requires players to use a Fire kit AND be in a predetermined campsite or, pay for resting within any Inn or Tavern.

While these changes may not agree with all players, know that they were made to support the statements I made above. They will remain this way until such time that another evaluation of server needs is made.

However, we are not beyond approach. The DM Team has always prided itself on listening to player concerns and implementing changes that have been requested. We will take ALL your concerns into consideration and make adjustments as necessary. This includes the resting and recall systems. Understand however that though we may NOT implement your suggestions to the letter, they do count as advisement as to the direction the server should go. It is for this reason that we request that you articulate your concerns and provide desirable solutions. After all, its next to impossible for us to address matters in any suitable fashion if all you provide is a rant.
So, in short.. keep the concerns coming and we will look at this.

======================= Simplified Version ===================

Yes, we know you don’t like the changes to the recall and resting systems. We will look at them over the coming weeks and make some more changes. Afterall, that is what I think the goal is- Make RD a place where we can all vent, escape the real world and kick some Orcish butt.
If you like or dislike ANYTHING about RD, please post it. Just please refrain from bitching and swearing. We will ignore these and quite frankly, is unnecessary. Give us something to work with (provide solutions if you have them).

[littletall]

oh noes, a ban threat! well, worry not, with the way things are going, I'm probably not gonna stick around long enough to get banned (or care if I do).
seems like everyone else already quit, so what's the point anyway. of all the good things we were promised with the wipe, seems like all we're getting is the shaft, more so with each copyover. so the "solution" is simple, stop giving us the shaft (and possibly take some back).
anyway, no personal offense to anyone, but I gotta ask (dont worry, its just a rhetorical question), what were you thinking when planning these changes? did anyone actually go "hey, lets make them pay 50k for a simple port! its such a wonderful idea, I bet everyone will be jumping with joy over it! I'll be darn if there's a single complaint or rant about it!" ? cause that's what it looks like judging by these surprised responses. and, again no personal offense, but the larger part of this post is just some political thank-you-for-voicing-your-concerns-your-request-will-receive-fair-consideration-to-see-if-we-can-find-a-solution-that-satisfies-all-parties-but-we-dont-promise-anything-now-calm-down-and-stop-annoying-us mumbo jumbo, which I can only admire since its very well written, but it doesnt really do anything for me. like in politics, the chances of any changes are very small. someone once said "When a man says he approves of something in principle, it means he hasn't the slightest intention of putting it into practice.", you're not even saying you approve in principle, so what are the chances of it being put into practice? zero. and also looking at the past, there's nothing to show that these suggestions will have any effect, so there's no hope for it anymore. and when there's no hope, all that's left is to bitch.

PS: another quote for the conclusion: "In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."

[Tempus]

Little, I dont presume your voice to be that of the masses, only yours. However, I do see you as a player and contributor so will address this to you individually.

Yes, there was such a discussion about how things would affect players. There always is. But just becuase a decision is made does not mean that it will please everyone. On the contrary, by definiation, not all changes will please all players all the time. Its a fact of life (unless of corse you are used to getting what you want and in that case, Im sorry but we cant help you).

Politics? I choose my words very specifically. They are powerful and I choose not to insult anyone so pick them with care. You on the other hand, mock my words suggesting that they were written to say alot of nothing or that they are full of smoke. Its very unfortunate that you view things this way becuase I indeed spoke DIRECTLY to the problem at hand and provided a solution. Statements such as: another evaluation of server needs is made and, We will look at them over the coming weeks and make some more changes, state clearly our intention.
You throw quotes of martyrism around like confetti. Its as if you only care about what you say to others and not what is being said to you.
For instance, you say that you were promised things and nothing has ever been delivered. I would argue that since the January wipe, there have been the following changes to the way RD USED to function:
- quests
- more gold drops
- higher experience gains
- less interruption /server down times
- more items
- more diversified creatures
- regular planned maintenance and updates
- regular boss/quests
- improved goon development and growth
- focus and rewards based on pure blood (non-munchkin) builds

Surely you cant think that change occurs at the drop of a hat?
Whether you choose to believe it or not, there is A LOT that goes into developing, managing and regulating a server. Not to mention consideration of peoples requests and input. Your slander serves to only outline your ignorance to these processes and highlights your focused concern over just one aspect of change instead of the many other events around you.

I write this to help explain things in a different way to you. We dont wish to loose ANY players, its the reason we all take time out of our lives, family and routines to invest in such activities as managing a server. But to suggest that we dont listen, dont care or make empty promises is unreasonable.

Changes will continue to occur, in much the same way as they always have but they wil not occur becuase you personally say so and not over night. I would like to see you remain an active and engaged player on this server Little. However, where you go and what you do is totally up to you.

[mardok]

I have not time to evaluate all the changes yet, but the two that I think need to be reevaluated are the portals and resting.

-Resting
I can get on board with going back to rest areas if that's the way its got to be, but I loved the campfire system. I felt the campfire system was one of the best things to ever happen to Redemption. But if we must go back to rest areas, get rid of the camp fires. Don't hose us both ways. Either have us pay to rest with the fires, or restrict our resting to rest spots, please don't do both.

Portals
I loved the portal stones. But if they must be taken away, the portals should be changed. If we are going to have portals in shandy and every other town, they should be linked to a conversation. In the conversation it should be noted where the portal goes, and how much it will cost, and not just wisk you away and deduct funds without so much of a mention. And the prices should be different according to destination. 50k to Stoneridge is absurd. I can see 50 k to Neftalon, but not Stoneridge, maybe 5000 gp. Maybe consider scaling it by distance. 1000 gp per area to get there. if its 14 areas away 14000 gp. Stoneridge is 5 areas away so it could be 5000. I think Dwarven hills is 7 areas, so that would be 7000.

One thing the portal stones did, and what the portals in Shandy will fix is the clan wanting to put portals in the halls. No one put any portals in this copy over because of the portal stones. If the prices on the portals in Shady stay as they are it will encourage the purchase of clan portals. If the portals are going to stay. I ask that we are given 1 month to raise funds for clan portals, and have a copy over for clan portals only to implement them.

2 cents
Mardok

[littletall]

I was not implying that I speak for the masses, but rather that I'm the only one that speaks at all. I'd love to hear everyone's opinions, especially since I know most people (well, of the few that still play) considers these two changes to be to the worse. but mostly its just me complaining and I assume most of the time you guys go "oh damn another one of littletall's long posts" and possibly skip it or whatever. and if I'd get everything I want, life would be good and I'd have no complaints at all. so its not about what only I want, but what others too want, except they dont say anything for some reason (thumbs-up to those of you that do, now and in the past). but yes - none of the things me (and others) have complained about have been implemented. well almost none anyway. I didnt say there werent any changes, or that they were all bad, but many were. too many. to respond to some that you listed:
- quests: all fine here, more quests are always welcome
- more gold drops: I guess more gold is always a benefit, but the change is not ground-shaking. in fact with the increase in prices, players are still way worse off than before
- higher xp: I've already discussed this. its nice to have a higher xp limit, but when you make the mobs harder, hasted, add damage per round in areas, nerf spells and equipment, its hard to take advantage of that higher limit, especially now that its impossible to form any kind of party.
- more stable server: while this is a very good thing on its own, I dont consider it a major change. I, at least, have gotten used to the occasional crash, and at least it meant the server was reset, which is something that happens too rarely nowadays. but I guess it means less work for whoever had to reset it.
- more items: yet nerfed
- more creatures: a nice change, tho not one we (I) couldnt live without
- regular updates: not sure what would need to be updated if there would be no wipe. just the clan halls and occasional bug fixes etc? bugs were fixed at a good rate before I think, but I know that some clans waited very long for their updates, and while I do feel their pain, it doesnt really affect me
- regular boss runs and quests: this is a very good thing. in principle. in practice, there has been no such thing. I know I missed some, but even with those, there was only a few of them ran. not regularly, but in a matter of weeks. the problem of course being that nobody is on, not the players nor the dms.
- goon upgrades: also a very nice idea, but also one I could live without.
- rewarding pure builds: for me, not a good change at all. I dont play here (or anywhere for that matter) to RP and make pure chars etc. I play to make interesting and good chars that you need to build smartly, take everything you need at a certain point to get the max out of them, etc.

on the other hand, we have had:
- spell nerfs
- gear nerfs
- resting system double nerf
- price increases
- recall stones which was a good change at first but canceling them wasnt
- most of the areas missing.
bottom line, if I had to choose between the server as it is now and as it was a year ago, I'd definitely choose a year ago.

I do not think that this was your intention when you wrote it, but still, saying things like "evaluation of server needs is coming and we will look at them over the coming weeks and make changes if necessary" is full of smoke. its what you hear every politician say when he wants to avoid the issue but not anger the voters by openly saying that he cant help them.

quotes of martyrdom? not at all. quotes of martyrdom would be more along the lines of:
"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." and
"The humblest citizen of all the land, when clad in the armor of a righteous cause, is stronger than all the hosts of error."
but nevermind that. my quote-posting ability is irrelevant to the subject at hand.

I do believe that running a server takes a lot of time. and yes I probably am unaware of many things that are going on (its not like anyone is particularly inclined on explaining anything. never was in the past either. which is also one of the complaints I've made but nothing has changed). but I only complain about the changes that I see, those that are already made, nothing about the upcoming stuff. and if any upcoming stuff makes these changes reasonable, please enlighten us.

I would like to remain an active and engaged player too. but. first of all, I dont have as much time as I had. I had exams the day before this last copyover, so I couldnt do more than check in once per day for a week or two before that. but before that, I was actively playing every day. and now that I have a bit more time before next exams, what do I get? a total disappointment. I really loved the server as it was before the wipe, I enjoyed every minute of the countless hours I've spent on it (well, almost every minute, there were a few bad ones too normally). but these changes are leading it into a direction I cant say I enjoy. every new change seems to "hit another nail in the coffin". I'm trying hard to get people to rethink some of the changes that are in my opinion ruining the server, because frankly I cant imagine myself playing under such circumstances. all in vain, it seems. in the last few days I've found myself thinking "lets play some nwn" and then "why bother?" and going off to do something else. theres noone on and nothing to do, and I certainly dont have time to walk around all day and/or farm loads of money to spend on ports.

PS: mardok's idea is good. including the suggested prices.

[Rulin Pendragon]

And I for one think that maybe some of the gold collected can be tagged to actually getting used for upgrades, if the price remains at 50k. We all know it takes a monsterous amount of gold to update the goons and clan hall, so why not this. Redevlop the portals, based off of clan affilliation. Each clan gets there own portal, to port wherever is dictated or available in the server, and have the gold that the players pay for to use the portal to go directly to an upgrade in either the hall or the goons. Granted it might take a million years or maybe 5 minutes for the brilliant minds of the RD crew here to get it in shape, but a conversation typed portal system for each clan, with all gold going towards updates that either clan members can choose, or only the DM or clan leader can choose to modify might be a good idea in the future. What ya think bout that one??

Ras