Ideas on Clan hall upgrades?

[shiva]

the villagers should pay tax to the clan!!! maybe a rp build around there as well

[havarti]

Idea: Clan players buy houses for the villagers to live in (much, much less than player housing) and then a commoner will move into there. Commoners generate income for the clan. Think of it as an investment. If an enemy raid kills villagers, their income is not gained until they respawn. The villagers will try to run into the keep once one of them is killed. should every single villager be killed, there should be a severe penalty on getting more villagers.

[Imhotep]

Messiah,

This is a great project! Here some comments:

1- From my point of view, Clan Archers shall be very strong (equipped with some kind of trolloc bows and arrows.). One thing I don’t like is a lazy exalted sorcerer staying immobile, tanking goons while chatting with some folks. He will now have to work and shoot some IGMS.
2- We need a limit on goons upgrading. At least, we shall not be able to focus only on one goon.
3- Commoners should drop gold or random stuff, but if a player kills a commoner, he should get a killer flag. His alignment could also be affected.
4- Why not have other NPC characters in the village? I would love to have a Blacksmith in my village for instance.
5- We could have a “training house” in the village where lowlevel characters could get some xp by fighting dummies and shooting targets. Just a thought to have this area more interactive.
6- It’s out of subject, but I would love to have a kind of trash pool in the Hall (or in the village) where players could drop gears and convert them in gold (gears shall disappear when dropped). We shouldn’t have a faire price by dropping gears in this pool (lets say 250gp max, but sometime we just don’t feel going in TG to sell Swords of Quickness). And why not have automatic donation to the clan (or to the leader)?

What do you think?

[Ael'Thas]

Goon upgrading is already limited, dont worry about that (if you read the goon/store upgrade list youll see)

And, i think it was Helm who posted this idea long time ago... clans could buy factories. First off they would buy a factory that produces, lets say, raw steel out of nothing. Then they would buy a factory that produces, lets say, long swords out of raw steel. After that, buy a house of wizards, which would enchant the weapons to be... lets say... spire cleavers. And in the end you could sell them manualy, or buy a merchant, who will sell them automaticly BUT he would take 15% or so for himself.

Of corse this could come in MANY varities... just a basic idea now rly, have to think about it more.

[The Messiah]

I'm not focusing on the Village right now, because it's my least favorite idea in terms of concept, usefulness, and implementation. That doesn't mean it won't happen, just that I need to be served a solid, relatively pain-free, and interctive implementation. Here's non-Village stuff:

CLAN GUARDIANS
Mini-goons best describe them. They can have 30 class levels, their ability scores start at 10 each, and have base upgrades available which will be similar to goons. They must follow all class, skill, and feat pre-requisites as players do. They either receive equipment based on the goon system, or at a later time we can work in a way for the Clan Village to build them equipment with time and investment.

CLAN ARCHERS
Archers are more restricted in their design, but more simple as well. They are added at a high price, but are already expert 40th level marksmen with basic equipment. Their base abilities are upgraded at a gold cost and their equipment is upgraded at a gold cost (or again, based on the Clan Village). Example costs:
-Increase Dexterity
-Increase Strength
-Increase HP
-Increase Damage Reduction (+20/Soak X)
-Add Elemental Resistance
-Increase Armor Class
-Upgrade Bow (Attack Bonus)
-Upgrade Arrows (Damage Bonus, Mighty)
-Add Regeneration

Ammunition Concern: If possible, scripting will add an opportunity for the clan to upgrade how fast Archers receive new arrow supplies, up to a certain maximum. Archers will start with their basic arrows at that maximum on spawn. TO ballpark it, it will probably be a couple hundred or a few thousand arrows.

GUARD TOWERS

Clan Archers fire from Guard Towers. They are specially designed spots that can only be attacked by range, and only accessed by Clan Archers or by members of their clan. A guard tower confers special buffs to creatures within it. For instance, increased AB and saving throws, temporary hit points, or regeneration. The guard towers would be upgraded to add and increase these effects. More magical effects such as Stoneskin or Spell Mantle are a possibility.

ARTILLERY
There are two kinds of artillery, a catapult and a ballista. Catapults fire AOE attacks at enemy targets. Ballistas fire Single Target attacks. What makes artillery special is it’s accuracy. It can’t miss (though it’s damage can be resisted). The Clan will be able to upgrade several features.

-Attack Damage Type
-Attack Damage Power
-Reload Time
-Structure Hardness
-Structure HP

CLAN MERCHANT
Functions as he does now, but the NPC can be upgraded as a Clan Guardian is upgraded. There may be special features such as upped maximums on his regeneration and HP to make him potentially very resilient.

CLAN HEALER
Functions as he does now, but the NPC will start as a 20th level Cleric when casting buffs. Upgrades can increase the level up to a 40th level Cleric, as well as add base upgrades to the NPC (AC, regen, HP, etc) in a similar fashion as the Clan Merchant. Buffs will cost gold.

CLAN STATUE
A useable placeable that can be destroyed (desecrated). The Clan can increase the statue’s hardness, hit points, and add damage shields to it. When used by a Clan Recruiter or Leader, it can buff players around it as mentioned previously. The clan can upgrade the power of the Special Weapon Buff with gold. The special buff and some basic spells will be available at default, and other spells are added for a gold cost. All starting and added spells cast at maximum level and have a duration often much greater than the spell’s parameters.

FAVOR SYSTEM
The primary function of Favor is a scoring system. Favor is a measure of Clan’s power or dominance over other Clans on Dominia. A scoreboard will likely be placed in the Temple of Shandalar, and perhaps one in each Clan Hall. The most obvious way to gain Favor for your clan is to kill players of opposing clans. Eclipse will gain higher Favor for killing Kindred than for killing a Chimaera, and vice versa. Chimaera will get an equal amount for killing either clan, allowing them to maintain their position as fence sitters and guardians of neutrality. Favor will be lost if members slay their kin (the Arena will negate this penalty).

More, and probably the most, favor can be gained by laying siege to a Clan Hall. NPCs in an enemy hall will be worth varying amounts. In order of increasing worth (tentative), it will be Clan Guardians, Clan Archers, Clan Goons, Healer/Merchant, Clan Statue.

Gaining Favor will be like getting a PK message. It will be between the slain and the killer. This may not sound fair if, for instance, a team of Chimaera and Kindred are attacking Eclipse Hall, because one side MAY get more Favor than the other even if both are contributing equally in every aspect, but it’s the simplest and I think, fairest way to handle things. There’s no fair way to take note of a clan’s tactics, or how well they keep the team healed or how often they raise allies…Statistically, given a team of Chims and Kinds of equal skill, the Favor should be split roughly in half anyway. We will explore ways to give, perhaps, slight bonuses in the Favor gain based on the number of successful, living invaders within the Keep when the Statue is smashed, but beyond that…It will be Killer vs. Killed.
Aside from a scoring system (which will probably be reset periodically), as mentioned previously Favor will be worth gold. The DMs will analyze the Favor of the clan every, say, month, and award an amount of gold credit to be used for Clan Hall upgrades. In essence, killing enemy clan members and destroying their hall yields gold to be used to upgrade your own hall.

CLAN DUNGEON
There needs to be a fair way to integrate this into the new clan hall system. I believe I have a fair way that doesn’t allow for some kind of exploitation of Favor bonuses by invader population (mentioned above). The Dungeon will hold any slain enemies within for a period of 15-30 minutes (TBD). If a siege is successful in this time, and the invaders break into the Clan Hall proper, they can pull a lever (skill check may be required) that will liberate their allies prematurely. The prisoners will be ejected outside of the Clan Hall.

OUT OF PVP? NO HALL FOR YOU!
People with Out of PvP flags cannot enter enemy Clan Halls, and will be booted out of enemy Moats. This is to keep the battlefield clean, and get the point across (automatically) that Clan areas are dedicated PVP areas. If your interest is watching quietly, then you shouldn’t have died. It will be your responsibility to set the terms for “watching” a fight, or figuring out how to do it without getting caught.

PASSIVE STATUE EFFECTS

These will be purchased and upgraded as a goon, but they are akin to adding magical effects to Strongholds in D&D. They are permanent effects that debuff any enemies within the area. There are three areas assigned in my earlier post, Lesser (Clan Moats), Normal (Clan Hall), Greater (Clan Keep). Each effect must be purchased and upgraded separately in each area. Some skeletal examples:

Decreased Skill (Hide/MS, Concentration, Discipline)
Decreased Attack Bonus
Decreased AC
Arcane Spell Failure

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NOTES: I'm currently mulling over balance issues with the addition of Guardians and all the other aspects that might make Halls too powerful. What I'm thinking right now is carefully designed restrictions on the guardians and Goons, such as a limit to how many bonus feats you can add on top of those gained by levels and class features. I'll think it over more, and it wouldn't happen without careful playtesting. In the event of restrictions, the leaders would be able to pick and choose which feats and abilities stay and which are stripped, and the money spent will be fully refunded as credit towards upgrading something else.

[Imhotep]

A Great War is coming is coming I guess...

Edit: With all those changes, shall we set a limit to the number raid clan that may occur? Spam raiding may be annoying sometimes, especially if you outnumbered/overpowered.

This may simply be implemented by a limit on the key drops per reset.

[The Messiah]

My tentative thought is that you can only feasibly break into the hall once every 3 hours. I'm willing to go up to 4 hours. This will also require editting of the "goon scream" script, because every NPC will have to have it, but if there are 15-20 NPCs and they all scream...well...spam.

The merchant and such would take about an hour to respawn.

Beyond that, spam raiding is a form of spam, and it should certainly be a subject between Clan Leaders in the form of general courtesy.

[renegade]

I haven't looked at this thread for a while but am I glad I did

Changes all sound great

[Pants]

Yes... Change is good...

[havarti]

Those all sound great. Two comments and a solution
1) If out of PvP, you should be able to use your clan portals to go level
2) Adding extra areas will make it take longer to get to your hall, which can be annoying.
Solution: Put the secret entrance outside of the hall entirely. Maybe make it precisely where slain invaders get dumped.

[The Messiah]

Some answers and news:

I've decided to set the Clan Hall thing to Priority Two, seeing as the Temple of Fire is getting close to completion, and I'm sure everyone would love to put their epics up to the test.

Hav,

1) Slain members out of PvP in the ALLIED clan hall may use their hall at will. It's their hall. Only enemies of the clan hall will be kicked out. Example, if Eclipse raids Kindred Hall, and two Eclipse die in the hall, they'll be booted out (or go to the dungeon). If Eclipse still in PvP kill two Kindred, those two Kindred remain where they are, though they will need rezzing as usual.

2) The secret entrance to the hall for members will be moved to the new closest area. So, the Village or Outer Moat.

[havarti]

Thanks for clearing that up, Messiah. I am now 100% behind all implementations into making larger clan halls.

[mardok]

Could player houseing with a personal goon be placed in a clan town in between the two gates? Make the houses raidable and upgradable. House protection would be the goon, or goons, the door, and chest lock, and possably traps. Have the doors pickable and the DC upgradable, as well as the chests. Huts could have one goon. Small houses two. Large houses 3. Castles 5.


Rewards:

Goons could drop a token on death that can be placed on the clan alter for clan GP. Kill more goons, get more GP for the clan. Perhaps differant rated tokens for greater or lesser goons.

[Pants]

i like that idea... but i dont like the idea of houses being broken into... some people may store stuff like qp or so in there house...just for the sake of people quiting the server maybe not add the breaking in of houses...

[havarti]

I think houses should be safe and not clan related. After all, YOU paid for your house and your goon. Maybe a bonus to killing goons in gold, but not a huge one and I definately don't think people should be able to rob your precious stash.