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Post by [Karma] on Oct 18, 2009 6:28:20 GMT -5
Anything not Pale Master isn't "worthy" in the eyes of kindred My main isn't a Pale Master, nor in fact have any of them ever been. In fact, the Pale Dragon was first used by Eclipse. Which is even more interesting considering the non-good alignment requirement, wouldn't you say? Statement failure. |
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Post by Gympie on Oct 18, 2009 12:11:11 GMT -5
Lol. He's right. I think Manus was the first one that did it, that I know of.
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Post by ciamhan on Oct 18, 2009 13:38:22 GMT -5
And C, why would a morningstar have a "critical miss"? It's a spiky ball on a stick, it shouldn't have a critical miss no more then a sword has one (although, you can really hit yourself with a sword if someone does a really strange block you didn't expect... :/ ) - were you thinking about a flail maybe?
A mace is a spiky ball or flanged head on a stick; a morningstar is a spiky ball on a chain on a stick.
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Post by Ael'Thas on Oct 18, 2009 14:04:42 GMT -5
A mace is a spiky ball or flanged head on a stick; a morningstar is a spiky ball on a chain on a stick. A morning star is very similar to a mace, the only thing that differs it from a mace is that it has one bigger spike at the top of the "head" with smaller spikes all around the head while a mace either has spikes of the same length or doesn't even have spikes and is a more blunt weapon that way. Maces were designed as a symettrical weapon as opposed to a similar kind of weapon (a hammer) so they could be used easily in combat (with a hammer you had to be careful to turn it the right way, with a mace it didn't matter with which side you struck the enemy). Spiky ball on a chain on a stick is called a flail. I believe it was originally designed as an agricultural weapon (take a stick and use a chain to attach a ball of iron to it's end) and then became more widespread - that's when the spikes on the ball came to be. There is also another variation of the flail which has two iron balls attached to the base wooden stick with two seperate chains. Even some flails with three balls were found but I kinda doubt their usefulness in combat personally  If you need something a little more substantial to believe me, wikipedia links  : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_star_(weapon)en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flail_(weapon)en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(club) |
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Post by bhale187 on Oct 18, 2009 14:52:26 GMT -5
Lol. He's right. I think Manus was the first one that did it, that I know of. It was done long before Manus, I forgot his name but he was a Gargoyle remort I believe. |
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Post by [Karma] on Oct 18, 2009 14:56:16 GMT -5
Lol. He's right. I think Manus was the first one that did it, that I know of. It was done long before Manus, I forgot his name but he was a Gargoyle remort I believe. I sincerely hope you're not referring to Karrak  Frosty was the first built properly. |
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Post by Ael'Thas on Oct 18, 2009 16:20:38 GMT -5
Depends on which version of Karrak you are talking to, but I don't think he ever dual wielded... I remember him with a longsword and shield and later on (after one of the wipes) with the Eclipse spear.
Shadow had an alt that dual wielded Azuredooms though, but it was crappy (too low AC and ab to survive/kill anything really)... can't remember the exact name and remort tho.
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Post by Gympie on Oct 18, 2009 19:09:15 GMT -5
My dual person had lower AC also, but I had Hell Reduction Bracers that helped out a ton.
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Post by [Karma] on Oct 19, 2009 2:44:02 GMT -5
Depends on which version of Karrak you are talking to, but I don't think he ever dual wielded... He didn't, but this is about pale dragon, not dual-wielding. Wrong thread. I remember him with a longsword and shield and later on (after one of the wipes) with the Eclipse spear. He switched to the spear after Bogar's epic failure in building a toon specifically to beat me, Balor remort with spear to resist my AD and hit my vulns. He lost, spammed curses and left server. Karrak had himself a shiny new spear. The good ol' days. Shadow had an alt that dual wielded Azuredooms though, but it was crappy (too low AC and ab to survive/kill anything really)... can't remember the exact name and remort tho. TBH, neither can I, though it rings a bell. AC is always low on a dual-wielder without monk cheese, ac takes a bit of a hit but should still be decent. Main goal to me was always maximum amount of attacks for those bosses (only hit on a 20 yada yada). Being able to slaughter people was a later addition. |
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Post by Tino the magnificent on Oct 19, 2009 7:56:31 GMT -5
blah blah blah.......why we always come back to same arguments about PM cheese Sorc cheese, etc. i admit, most my build skills have been focused in incorporating PM into my builds, first, PM rocks, second it goes well w/ the whole EVIL thing........however, just because a few of a certain clan has skill in any one clas doesn't meen the entire clan focuses in that class.... it would be easy for me to say "Eclipse is nothing but dirty sorc cheesers" because a few good casters have come out of Eclipse, but i'm NOT.....it's not fair to steriotype the whole clan on one or a few players merit wow, i Fing sound like a pius ass some times  ..................................................................... on to better things, this thread is about WEAPON MASTERS if i'm not mistaken and weapon masters is what we shall talk about just a minor thing that has been anoying me for umm, umm......forever i've always wanted to have a duel weild whip master; first.... whips suck on RD second.....u canna duel wield em third... should have gear dedicated to duel weild so thier ac isn't sucking too much my sugestion(not sure it it's even doable)...... have a clause on certain weapons to promote duel wielding em; something like " if duel weild +5 ac" this would only apply if both weapons were same exact weapon......not saying it be on EVERY weapon but just on certain ones what u guys think, just something rattling around in my head as i'm getting ready for work see ya, Tino |
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Post by Gympie on Oct 19, 2009 10:38:33 GMT -5
That's sounds like a fantastic idea. The two weapon defense feats would be cool but I'm not sure that's something that can be put into effect.
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Post by ciamhan on Oct 19, 2009 21:22:58 GMT -5
Since this is the roleplaying forum, I'll try to address the dual-wield issue in that manner as well as trying to be historically accurate rather than what we do in game because we can: If I had practiced my lute as much as my weapons, I might be making decent money somewhere, perhaps the court musician on a noble's fine estate. Instead, I know just enough music to make my friend's happy, and enough about weapons to win an occasional tourney.(Then I wake up). No matter that it's one weapon or two, I can Parry many blows and hope for an opening in my enemy's defenses (a lost art, in most fighting disciplines), or I can trust in my Expertise, cautiousness that makes my strikes not always forceful yet likewise gives me more distance and time to avoid a blow. I have tried using two weapons and have studied the masters. Twin sticks, daggers and kamas seem popular among our friends in the east, while those in the west have tried many things. A hammer or bearded axe in the off-hand historically works well against a man with a shield, for with such you can pull the shield away, leaving him open for your main attack. To carry two of anything bigger than a shortsword has lead many men to defeat, and nobody has ever used two longswords and lived to tell of it. To watch two experts each armed with twin daggers is an especially amazing sight if you are close enough and quick enough to follow the action. Naturally, skill overcomes apparent weapon imbalances. A skilled man with two daggers may easily defeat a less skilled opponent armed with a longsword or even a halberd. Rapiers are a special case, a pun since two matched rapiers are called "a case." By the time rapiers came along, shields were mostly out of use, except for the smallest of shields called bucklers. I have used two rapiers, and rapier and dagger, but as this type of fighting relies on precise attacks and speed, a large shield that hampers my vision and ways me down might do me more harm than good. (We all use rapiers and tower shields here, even me ) Unfortunately, the defensive advantage you might think you'd get from having another object out there in front of your body and in the way of incoming steel is negated by the need you now have to think about it, and decide if you should leave it static over your heart, move it to block a stroke, or use it offensively because you see an opening, using your main for defense at the moment. So in the end, it all comes down to training. Ciamhan Ancient Dragon of Chimaera |
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Post by Tempus on Oct 20, 2009 8:01:18 GMT -5
Ah *sighs and pulls long on the pipe of kingsfoil*
Regail us with yet another Bard!
And such is life as warriors muse around the spit.
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Post by [Karma] on Oct 21, 2009 1:03:16 GMT -5
blah blah blah.......why we always come back to same arguments about PM cheese Sorc cheese, etc. Because everyone wants their particular build to be win-all, having something out there that trumps it with ease is just un-nerving, despite the fact builds are very rock/paper/scissors. i admit, most my build skills have been focused in incorporating PM into my builds, first, PM rocks, second it goes well w/ the whole EVIL thing........however, just because a few of a certain clan has skill in any one clas doesn't meen the entire clan focuses in that class.... Word. it would be easy for me to say "Eclipse is nothing but dirty sorc cheesers" because a few good casters have come out of Eclipse, but i'm NOT.....it's not fair to steriotype the whole clan on one or a few players merit True, when it comes to Eclipse, it's much easier just to point, laugh, and move on. wow, i Fing sound like a pious ass some times Fixed. on to better things, this thread is about WEAPON MASTERS if i'm not mistaken and weapon masters is what we shall talk about Weapon masters are imba cheese and should be nerfed. i've always wanted to have a duel weild whip master; As have I, but read on. first.... whips suck on RD That's because they are not katana's. second.....u canna duel wield em Unfortunately, this is hardcoded, and thusly, completely unchangeable. Bioware 1, Common Sense 0. third... should have gear dedicated to duel weild so thier ac isn't sucking too much The benefits in dual-wield is inherent in the excess attacks, you can ac boost a dual-wielder quite well with either monk or dex based weaponry + weap-finesse. Whip fits into this. my sugestion(not sure it it's even doable)...... have a clause on certain weapons to promote duel wielding em; something like " if duel weild +5 ac" this would only apply if both weapons were same exact weapon......not saying it be on EVERY weapon but just on certain ones If on some why not all? If on all why not none? As much as I'm for nifty perks to push lesser used builds, I feel (being quite experienced in this area ) that dual-wielders are making a fair trade attacks for ac/ab, because their role is completely different to your standard weapon+shield melee'er. As is a two hander build. They require a little more strategy (and some allies) to maximise their benefits, but with these factors, they do alot better pvm, and even, to a lesser extent, pvp. In conclusion, I would prefer that dual-wielders were able to enhance their strengths rather than minimise their losses. For instance, I would suggest that at epic level (21) characters with a weapon focus (weapon) and ambi+two-weap+improved two-weap get an extra attack in that weapon, multiple focuses allowing for multiple weapons to gain this bonus. At 40, a second bonus attack is granted. This is entirely scriptable, and really makes dual weap viable. Note this could be applied to two handers similarly, since frankly they are useless except with large remorts as a single hander. For instance, at 21, with weap focus, strength is double instead of 1.5x, at 40 it is tripled. You can see what this does for say, scythe wm, without detracting from the shoddy ac that makes it hard to keep alive. Just my 2ยข |
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Post by Pants on Oct 21, 2009 18:26:37 GMT -5
Wait until you see some of the swords in the new RD. Some look like those weilded in Bleach! I always wondered how exactly Ichigo manages to draw that sword, it's too freaking huge to be drawn the way he does it... must be some funky strong-reiatsu thing And C, why would a morningstar have a "critical miss"? It's a spiky ball on a stick, it shouldn't have a critical miss no more then a sword has one (although, you can really hit yourself with a sword if someone does a really strange block you didn't expect... :/ ) - were you thinking about a flail maybe?  nobody has ever questioned the talking black cat with a mans voice that turns out to be a women O.o |
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